Changed tuners for my Squier

[Jacew]

I bought Wilkinson Kluson type EZ lock tuners used while ago. Installed them at the evening to my CV.

While I was playing to get strings stable, it was quite obvious that using the upper hole for G string was too high. So I rewound the D and G strings through the lower hole. (I don't get it why people complain about changing strings for EZ's. With a good pliers, it took a few minutes to remove string and wind it back.)

Then I was having problems with B and high E not keeping in tune. I thought that to be because the string tree was pushing them too low, so a moved those strings through the lower hole as well.

They still didn't keep tune, so I threw the whole string tree away. I'm still bit stunned by the result: It keeps tune perfectly. I'm intentionally tried to bend strings, do dive bombs, flaunting wild vibratos... All sorts of misuse I thought wasn't possible with vintage tremolo. It always returns in tune, perfectly. It's awesome...

So... EZ lockers do really work. Very well.

But I started to wonder why string trees are still used anyway? It seems they're causing more trouble than actually helping? It could be placebo effect, but I think those strings also ring now much clearer without it

[daenius]

Re: Changed tuners for my Squier

Low quality string trees certainly can contribute to tuning anomalies! Don't underestimate that little piece of metal, as it can induce a lot of unnecessary friction and really screw up pitch return after bending and slight whammy use, or heck, even just staying in tune with regular playing.

Not surprised to hear the Wilkinson fare much better than the stock tuners though! Tuning keys are what manufacturers skimp on to hit a certain price point, and are definitely one of the easiest no-brainer upgrades to improve the instrument. The superior gear ratio of the Wilkinson certainly helps the tuning a whole lot too.

While you're at it, lubricate the nut!

[ICTGoober]

Re: Changed tuners for my Squier

If you are winding string around the posts of your locking tuners, you are doing it wrong. The whole point of locking tuners is NO WRAPS, because wraps can loosen and detune the string. Pull it through, get it tight, cinch down the lock, cut it off. If there is more than a full wrap of string on the post - that's too much.

[Silence Kid]

Re: Changed tuners for my Squier

Yep, get the string nice and tight then clamp, and if you float the bridge try tuning them up one by one to minimize the amount of wraps necessary.

Sounds like the tuners weren't the issue after all though? I've played VERY few modern guitars where the tuners were actually the source of any tuning problems... That's even with cheap newer Squier/Chinese Tuners. The worst I've used are the old "diamond" Squier tuners, even they stay in pitch, they just have horrible feel.

Anyway, I also have guitars with single string trees, single, multiple, etc... I have no tuning issues with any of those guitars either, even floating vintage bridges, and even with the string tree screwed down to the wood (per vintage Fender.) It's just a matter of quality, and it does affect the feel of that string.

But you're not supposed to use string trees with lockers either (look at Fender Deluxes,) so there's that. Anecdotally the most common causes of tuning issues in my experience: The nut. The pivots. Even the bridge catching on the pickguard. But not really the tuners so much.

[MetalManiac]

Re: Changed tuners for my Squier

^ WRONG-O! I have found you need to leave slack in the locking tuner, and let it wrap around a bit before it gets tight and locks. If I simply tighten the string and lock it , it creates too much tension on the lock point and can bust the string.

[daenius]

Re: Changed tuners for my Squier

^ WRONG-O! I have found you need to leave slack in the locking tuner, and let it wrap around a bit before it gets tight and locks. If I simply tighten the string and lock it , it creates too much tension on the lock point and can bust the string.

For me it naturally wraps around just once if I just pull the string through, lock it, then start tuning. I also stretch my strings after stringing and so perhaps that also adds a bit more tightening to it? Maybe it's the brand of strings I use? Not sure, but it always works out that way.

But you're not supposed to use string trees with lockers either (look at Fender Deluxes,) so there's that. Anecdotally the most common causes of tuning issues in my experience: The nut. The pivots. Even the bridge catching on the pickguard. But not really the tuners so much.

As to string trees and locking tuners: I don't think that's related or matters in my experience. I have a couple Suhrs with locking tuners and no string tree, then i have a couple Tom Andersons with locking tuners and they still have one string tree. All of them stay in tune perfectly fine under any play circumstances.

[MetalManiac]

Re: Changed tuners for my Squier

But you're not supposed to use string trees with lockers either (look at Fender Deluxes,) so there's that.

Yeah, taht's what they say. I use top of the line premium STAGGERED lockers on most of my Fender type guitars, and guess what?..I cannot live w/o , or even fathom the idea of not using DOUBLE string trees! The strings just sit to high to avoid 'plink'/ 'thud'.The way the modern guitars are especailly, the headstock on the fender types are really dished.

I think it may matter more if you like really really low action like me though?

[Silence Kid]

Re: Changed tuners for my Squier

It's been ages since I had a string break at the tuner. And I've never had it occur with locking tuners. I assume it can happen with any faulty tuner.

[AlexR]

Re: Changed tuners for my Squier

The string trees are there to keep the sort of backward pressure over the nut that strings 4-6 typically have with non staggered tuners. A quick look at the angle will show you that the string barely has any downforce, meaning that you could get it popping out of the nut slot if you're not careful.

Quite frankly I prefer the more straight angle, and I think both Brian May and EVH strung their guitars with the least possible backward angle so there was not any more friction force over the nut than was barely needed.

[Jacew]

Re: Changed tuners for my Squier

If you are winding string around the posts of your locking tuners, you are doing it wrong. The whole point of locking tuners is NO WRAPS, because wraps can loosen and detune the string. Pull it through, get it tight, cinch down the lock, cut it off. If there is more than a full wrap of string on the post - that's too much.

EZ Locks are not regular locking tuners. They're just a regular tuners with two holes, where you wound the string through both of them to get the locking effect.

I always use as little wraps as possible even with regular tuners.

[Jacew]

Re: Changed tuners for my Squier

The string trees are there to keep the sort of backward pressure over the nut that strings 4-6 typically have with non staggered tuners. A quick look at the angle will show you that the string barely has any downforce, meaning that you could get it popping out of the nut slot if you're not careful.

Quite frankly I prefer the more straight angle, and I think both Brian May and EVH strung their guitars with the least possible backward angle so there was not any more friction force over the nut than was barely needed.

That's the thing I think made it this solid, there's very little downwards pressure on the nut. Still enough to keep strings in place though.

[Jacew]

Re: Changed tuners for my Squier

Yep, get the string nice and tight then clamp, and if you float the bridge try tuning them up one by one to minimize the amount of wraps necessary.

Sounds like the tuners weren't the issue after all though? I've played VERY few modern guitars where the tuners were actually the source of any tuning problems... That's even with cheap newer Squier/Chinese Tuners. The worst I've used are the old "diamond" Squier tuners, even they stay in pitch, they just have horrible feel.

Anyway, I also have guitars with single string trees, single, multiple, etc... I have no tuning issues with any of those guitars either, even floating vintage bridges, and even with the string tree screwed down to the wood (per vintage Fender.) It's just a matter of quality, and it does affect the feel of that string.

But you're not supposed to use string trees with lockers either (look at Fender Deluxes,) so there's that. Anecdotally the most common causes of tuning issues in my experience: The nut. The pivots. Even the bridge catching on the pickguard. But not really the tuners so much.

There wasn't any issue with my tuners. Well, you could get it out of tune with a trem, if you really tried, but that's it.

I just got bargain with these, and originals felt a bit "cheap", so I thought to change them just for trying it out.