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A Lapse of Memory w/LP's

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  • A Lapse of Memory w/LP's

    Good morning all~ Forgive me as it's been a while since I've owned a LP or similar with a standard 2 p/u, 2-Vol,, 2-Tone setup,,, BUT when you're in the middle position and you fully back off the volume of either p/u, is it normal to loose all volume? It's a Dean Hardtail that has had the original p/u's replaced with some X2N clones that sound fine, but I sense that something is amiss... As an aside, the 10.3K Neck p/u is overpowering the 16.6K Bridge, regardless of how much i compensate the p/u heights,,,??....
    thnx in advance!!

  • #2
    There are two commonly used wiring schemes with that setup, one is 50’s style, the other 60’s. One of them does what you’re referring to.

    As far as the pickup volumes, resistance doesn’t really indicate output, as evidenced by what you’re experiencing. If they have 4 conductor wiring, make sure the bridge isn’t split or parallel.
    "Patience is key. Hard work is obligatory. And itís the decisions you make right now, not the habits of the past, that will shape your success in the future." - Janek Gwizdala

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    • #3
      Your guitar is V/V/T/T? Not only can you do dependent or independent volumes as JB from Hell mentioned, you can also connect the tone in 50’s or modern. 50’s will retain treble as you roll off volume, modern will retain normal volume control as you roll off tone and volume.

      If you back off the neck how does it sound? Do you get to a point where the neck is wimpy and thin yet still overpowering the bridge?

      Also, I don’t see an X2N neck, so who knows how good a knockoff “set” is going to sound together.
      Last edited by PFDarkside; 08-29-2021, 12:10 PM.
      Oh no.....


      Oh Yeah!

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      • #4
        you can swap the wires on the volume pots
        with the wires from the switch going to the center lug instead of the outside lug
        and the wire from the jack to the outside lug instead of the center lug

        independent volumes

        my current project has a single volume for the magnetic pickups and one single volume for the piezo pickup
        I am wiring those like this for independence
        so I can roll in or out which every I want
        EHD
        Just here surfing Guitar Pron
        RG2EX1 w/ SD hot-rodded pickups / RG4EXFM1 w/ Carvin S22j/b + FVN middle
        SR500 / Martin 000CE-1/Epiphone Hummingbird
        Epiphone Florentine with OEM Probuckers
        Ehdwuld branded Blue semi hollow custom with JB/Jazz
        Reptile Green Gibson Custom Studio / Aqua Dean Shire semi hollow with piezo
        Carvin Belair / Laney GC80A Acoustic Amp (a gift from Guitar Player Mag)
        GNX3000 (yea I'm a modeler)

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        • #5
          Very cool info,,, Any simple link to the Schematic for independent controls, or better yet, for both the 50 & 60's setup? Hey, it's 95 in the shade down here, so yes, a lazy sod i am

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          • #6
            PFDarkside,,, The 50's thing might be cool,,, is that the one where you don't lose all signal when you totally back off of either pup? Thnx!!

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            • #7
              The term "50s wiring" is actually used to refer to two different things.
              There's 50s tone pot wiring, most often discussed I think because it's a very simple mod that helps preserve treble when rolling back volume.

              But there's also 50s volume pot wiring, where in middle position turning either one off shuts down the whole thing.
              60s volume pot wiring would eliminate that problem for you.

              EdIt: A little more confusingly, the 50s style tone wiring can also be used in conjunction with 60s style volume wiring.
              50s tone wiring is simply a matter of tapping for the tone pot downstream of the volume pot, rather than before it.
              That way when the volume is backed off, less signal goes over to the tone pot for treble rolloff.
              Last edited by eclecticsynergy; 08-29-2021, 02:16 PM.
              .
              "Brains have been washed. Fear has been mongered. Now we prepare for the final stage of our conspiracy theory." - Isle Of Dogs

              .

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              • #8
                Originally posted by eclecticsynergy View Post
                The term "50s wiring" is actually used to refer to two different things.
                There's 50s tone pot wiring, most often discussed I think because it's a very simple mod that helps preserve treble when rolling back volume.

                But there's also 50s volume pot wiring, where in middle position turning either one off shuts down the whole thing.
                60s volume pot wiring would eliminate that problem for you.

                EdIt: A little more confusingly, the 50s style tone wiring can also be used in conjunction with 60s style volume wiring.
                50s tone wiring is simply a matter of tapping for the tone pot downstream of the volume pot, rather than before it.
                That way when the volume is backed off, less signal goes over to the tone pot for treble rolloff.
                Yes, I think he wants the 60’s style volume with 50’s style tone connection. While in there he may as well experiment with tone cap values as well.

                I don’t have a diagram that does both, but basically you want the pickup connected to the center lug of the volume pot, the selector switch connected to the outside lug opposite of the ground and the tone control connected to this lug as well. I’m not sure if I’ve ever combined them like this before.
                Oh no.....


                Oh Yeah!

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                • #9
                  Yes it is common, and I must say, quite handy.

                  Roll the pickup you don't use to zero, and you have a built in kill with.

                  Roll it up just ever so slightly and you can go from full on distortion in the bridge to pretty darn clean, again at the flick of a switch.

                  I love the pot wiring on a Les Paul.
                  Originally posted by Bad City
                  He's got the crowd on his side and the blue jean lights in his eyes...

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                  • #10
                    What the damn is 60s wiring and who decided to call it that
                    If I only had a dollar for every song I've sung
                    every time I had to play while people sat there drunk,

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                    • #11
                      there is 50's wiring and modern wiring for how the tone control is wired, then dependent and independent wiring for the volume controls. not sure why people started calling things 60s style and had never heard that before maybe a year ago

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                      • #12
                        HMMM, all i know is that the way things sit, & not at my doing, is that any Volume change of either p/u when in the MIDDLE position, sends me thru a kaleidoscope of phasing issues, along with very uneven Volume taper & sudden drop-off when either Volume is in or around '1'... Hey,, some of the sounds are actually cool & usable, but something is amiss, & I'd like to better understand why, even if I choose to leave it as is....As for Tone, I use a very low cap (less than .01), & only on the bridge,,, No neck Tone Cap...
                        thnx folks!!

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                        • #13
                          One of your pickups is wired out of phase
                          If I only had a dollar for every song I've sung
                          every time I had to play while people sat there drunk,

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                          • #14
                            Originally posted by Chistopher View Post
                            What the damn is 60s wiring and who decided to call it that
                            Originally posted by jeremy View Post
                            there is 50's wiring and modern wiring for how the tone control is wired, then dependent and independent wiring for the volume controls. not sure why people started calling things 60s style and had never heard that before maybe a year ago
                            It's because Gibson switched to the independent volume arrangement in the early 60s.
                            For many years Gibson used T-tops in most models, so some treble loss when you rolled back was actually helpful.
                            Decades passed before it became widely known that the old wiring behaves differently.
                            .
                            "Brains have been washed. Fear has been mongered. Now we prepare for the final stage of our conspiracy theory." - Isle Of Dogs

                            .

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                            • #15
                              Interesting
                              If I only had a dollar for every song I've sung
                              every time I had to play while people sat there drunk,

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