Why do open G strings sound out of tune

['59]

I've got perfect pitch, which is funny because I don't know much theory so it's applications are limited. I'm working on that though

The one thing that always trips me up though is that open G strings always sound a few cents sharp. Which is weird, because g sharp, which on most guitars actually does wind up a few cents sharp, sounds less out of tune.

[jeremy]

guitars are flawed in their design. tempered tunings can help, as can compensated nuts, but its a functional limitation of the instrument. i set my intonation to be the best average of being intune up and down the neck for each string

[GuitarStv]

Wiggly frets fix all that tempered tuning problem.



If I could hear pitch perfectly, I'd be tempted to look into one of them. For those of us with imperfect pitch, a regular guitar is close enough. :P

['59]

The temperament wouldn't effect the open note though. What I'm saying is why does the open g sound out of tune even when its in tune?

[jeremy]

in tune with what? other fretted notes? see post 1

[PFDarkside]

I love this topic. I’m just happy that I am able to discuss it on the internet and not get so obsessed that I spend my family fortune trying to “correct” it where there is an exceedingly small market.

There are several issues at play.

1. The physics of the guitar. The unwound G shifts the most in pitch with the least tension change. This is a positive trying to play those blues and Chuck Berry bends on the G string, but also a massive negative when trying to tune. It amplifies poor technique (if you fret to hard it’ll go much more sharp than surrounding strings) and if anything in the system allows the tension to change (tuner, nut, bridge, string) you’ll hear it as out of tune.

2. The physics of a major third. Many times the G ends up playing the major third. With 12 tone equal temperament a major third is about 13 cents sharp from a beat-less major third using just intervals. A piano, organ or any other pre-tuned instrumentalist just becomes accustomed to the sharp major third. A string or woodwind player becomes accustomed to lowering the pitch to the just interval. Guitar is tough because you can learn to raise a pitch with extra pressure but you can’t lower it easily.

3. Guitar players use distortion. Distortion amplifies the tuning issues from the above two reasons. Since we love the way distortion sounds guitar players consciously and unconsciously do things to mitigate the issues from above. We use root-fifth power chords instead of full Major/minor chords. We tune the G and B by ear instead of with a tuner, and subtly adjust the fretted notes with finger pressure. (EVH and Frusciante famously did this) Some don’t hear it at all and play out of tune.

I’ve never experienced Perfect Pitch. Does your ear want to hear the just intonated or the equal tempered major third? Does a piano sound in tune to you? If so, does a lowered major third also sound in tune to you?

One simple solution to the first problem is to swap to a wound G. (Alternatively you could swap to a very heavy plain G) You lose everything cool about bending a slinky G, but chords will be closer to in tune. You can buy a devices that attempts to compensate for the issues (Earvana, Buzz Feiten, True Temperament and Evertune, heck even a double locking tremolo) are all things that address the first or second and sometimes both issues.

Another solution is to setup the guitar as good as possible, get your technique sharp and accept that a guitar is imperfect as GuitarStv says above.

[PFDarkside]

The temperament wouldn't effect the open note though. What I'm saying is why does the open g sound out of tune even when its in tune?

To echo Jeremy’s question, in tune with what? You set the tuning with the G tuner. Are you saying that your tuner says it’s a perfect G but you aren’t hearing it as such?

[GuitarStv]

The temperament wouldn't effect the open note though. What I'm saying is why does the open g sound out of tune even when its in tune?

Turn the tuner until the open G is correct. :P

[dave74]

Hit it soft enough and the problem goes away. Same thing with the big string. Try using a small wound 3rd if you want less of the "problem".
17 is the largest plain I use, and that is for guitars that are tuned a step low.

[Mincer]

I don't have perfect pitch, but that G sounds out of tune to me, too. So does the G# in an open E chord. They make compensated nuts to fix the open string.

['59]

in tune with what? other fretted notes? see post 1

A G3 is supposed to be at 196.0 hz. The G string on a guitar, even when tuned to 196 hz, always sounds sharp to me for some reason.

['59]

I’ve never experienced Perfect Pitch. Does your ear want to hear the just intonated or the equal tempered major third? Does a piano sound in tune to you? If so, does a lowered major third also sound in tune to you?

I developed perfect pitch as a child because I had an obsession with the idea (one of the byproducts of my Aspergers, which I've mostly outgrown, for lack of a better term).

My ear is more inclined to equal temperament tuning, because I learned by just sitting at a piano for hours and trying to recognize the notes by sound.

It's funny though, because I learned perfect pitch without learning any other music theory, it's better then my relative pitch. I can do the easy ones, like minor/major third and perfect 5th no problem, but for the less commonly heard ones I have to count the half steps in my head.

[Demanic]

I just accept that the open G is going to be a bit flat, so that the fretted notes would be in tune.

Sent from my SM-A115A using Tapatalk

[PFDarkside]

I developed perfect pitch as a child because I had an obsession with the idea (one of the byproducts of my Aspergers, which I've mostly outgrown, for lack of a better term).

My ear is more inclined to equal temperament tuning, because I learned by just sitting at a piano for hours and trying to recognize the notes by sound.

It's funny though, because I learned perfect pitch without learning any other music theory, it's better then my relative pitch. I can do the easy ones, like minor/major third and perfect 5th no problem, but for the less commonly heard ones I have to count the half steps in my head.

That’s very interesting! So I guess there is something in the overtones of the G string that are fighting with your memory of what a G should sound like. I’d love to hear what your impressions of a wound G would be.

[Chistopher]

That’s very interesting! So I guess there is something in the overtones of the G string that are fighting with your memory of what a G should sound like. I’d love to hear what your impressions of a wound G would be.

I was going to say something similar. The way most nuts are cut from the factory, the g slot is usually cut a lil bigger so you can fit a wound string in. You probably got some conflicting overtones. What size strings do you use?