Most "traditional" 5 way HSS Strat setup

[Inflames626]

Hi all,
So I'm building my first real Strat around a Floyded HSS Jackson Adrian Smith SDX model with 5 way switch. Prior to this, I had used HSS super Strats, mainly Jackson Dinkys. This is my first time working with a plastic pickguard and using that approach to wiring pickups. It's also my first time working with a non-recessed Floyd.

I was surprised at how big an actual Strat is (for scale, I'm about Angus Young sized) when compared to a 7/8 size Dinky.

I'll number this to make it a little easier.

1) As far as knobs, what is the most traditional setup? Based on most wiring diagrams I have seen, it is tone/tone/volume.

2) How should the 5 way switch be wired for the most traditional manner?

I know the 5 way switch can be wired numerous ways as is evident on many Ibanez models. I thought I'd get feedback on how a 5 way is usually wired in a traditional manner.

I thought it might be neck, neck/middle, neck/middle/humbucker in parallel, middle and humbucker, humbucker.

The Smith model has two knob holes in the pickguard. Right away I'm noticing I'm probably going to need 3 pot holes for what I have in mind.

I imagine a Fender 11 screw HSS pickguard will fit it since Jackson is Fender now. I've emailed Sweetwater for compatibility just in case. I know I can drill a hole easily but without a CnC machine or drill press I feel it won't look nice.

3) I'd like the following: master tone, master volume/push/pull for phase, 3 way on/on/on DPDT switch so the humbucker can be wired series/split/parallel. I would use a Triple Shot for this but a Strat doesn't have humbucker mounting rings (duh), something I didn't realize until I closely looked at it (I thought the ring could be incorporated into the pickguard somehow).

I also thought about using a concentric pot somehow, maybe having single coil/humbucker tone on a concentric pot, master volume/push/pull phase, and then the 3 way switch (probably will have to be a mini toggle that I'll upsize with surgical tubing to fit a regular sized pot hole).

4) Is it best for phase switches to affect the single coils or the humbucker in an HSS setup? I know on H/H guitars it doesn't really matter. I usually put it on neck pickup.

5) Pickup configuration. Since this will be my "traditional" Strat build, I decided to go with A2P singles and a Custom Custom in the bridge (never tried any of these).

In a more modern Dinky I will try SSL1/2s and a Perpetual Burn. Since I like a 1950s Strat sound I only plan to ramp up in single coil output if necessary. I think you lose touch sensitivity, sparkle, and dynamics the more output/hum canceling you put into singles, although hotter singles will probably sound warmer, especially in the neck.

I am not trying RWRP or anything like that. I actually want a little bit of the noise and hum so it will sound more vintage. I will probably test DCR just to make sure the slightly hotter single goes into the middle position to it ramps up smoothly in output from position to position.

I bought all these pickups used and as far as I know they are identical. Still, I expect some slight tolerance differences in manufacturing.

It goes without saying the Floyd Rose Special is going to be replaced with a genuine or Schaller OFR. Strings had popped out of the Special during shipping.

Thanks from a traditional Strat newbie.

[beaubrummels]

1. Volume closest to the pickups, then middle tone, neck tone. But you might consider just one master tone, keeping the Smith pickguard as-is, because with traditional Strat you'd end up with the singles on indivoidual tone controls and the bridge with nothing, way brighter. It doesn't always balance so well when throwing the switch on a 'traditional' Strat.
2. Position 1 - bridge, Position 2 - bridge+middle, Position 3 - middle, Position 4 - middle+neck, Position 5 - neck. The proposal you described is 6 positions, not 5.
3. On my Jackson, I used a push-pull on the volume and the tone. It's wired to work like a triple shot. Both down is normal humbucker. Volume up is slug coil. Tone up is screw coil. Both up is parallel coils. For consideration. The 3-way certainly is a great solution also. You just need to drill another hole in your pickguard.
4. Since it's HSS, I would flip the phase on the middle pickup. That way you can have OOP between bridge and middle, or OOP with middle and neck
5. All kinds of pickup sets work for HSS. Your proposal sounds like a good one, especially if the Jackson is basswood or poplar with a Floyd - anything bright. For me, I'm working up to pull the trigger on the Lara Basilio set for my Jackson. It's got a 14k A5 hum, a 5/2 Strat middle, and a 5/4 tele neck.

[Inflames626]

1. Volume closest to the pickups, then middle tone, neck tone. But you might consider just one master tone, keeping the Smith pickguard as-is, because with traditional Strat you'd end up with the singles on indivoidual tone controls and the bridge with nothing, way brighter. It doesn't always balance so well when throwing the switch on a 'traditional' Strat.
2. Position 1 - bridge, Position 2 - bridge+middle, Position 3 - middle, Position 4 - middle+neck, Position 5 - neck. The proposal you described is 6 positions, not 5.
3. On my Jackson, I used a push-pull on the volume and the tone. It's wired to work like a triple shot. Both down is normal humbucker. Volume up is slug coil. Tone up is screw coil. Both up is parallel coils. For consideration. The 3-way certainly is a great solution also. You just need to drill another hole in your pickguard.
4. Since it's HSS, I would flip the phase on the middle pickup. That way you can have OOP between bridge and middle, or OOP with middle and neck
5. All kinds of pickup sets work for HSS. Your proposal sounds like a good one, especially if the Jackson is basswood or poplar with a Floyd - anything bright. For me, I'm working up to pull the trigger on the Lara Basilio set for my Jackson. It's got a 14k A5 hum, a 5/2 Strat middle, and a 5/4 tele neck.

Thanks as always beaubrummels for quality advice.

1) I'm somewhat dubious on a tone for both neck and bridge. Since I'll be recording mainly, if I want a warmer single coil tone and a brighter bridge pickup tone, I can just stop recording, roll the tone up or down, and record from that point. I can only see a benefit of two tone controls if you want say full dark on singles, full bright on humbucker, and need to switch between them quickly live, so I see your point about maybe not needing two tones.

2) I thought I listed 5 positions?: 1) neck, 2) neck/middle, 3) neck/middle/humbucker in parallel, 4) middle and humbucker, 5) humbucker. My main confusion was what exactly happens with a single on a 5 way switch. Since many consider a middle single coil somewhat useless I thought it got incorporated into the other pickups because it sounded thin/unpleasing by itself.

3) Thanks for mentioning something I didn't think of with #3. Stuff like that is exactly why I thought it best to ask in this post. Maybe in my head it's just easier for me to think organizationally of two tones on a concentric pot, or two volumes. For some reason a tone also being a switch seems to throw me as unnatural, maybe because I don't use a tone knob much and fear bumping it when pulling the switch and thus accidentally changing the tone. I was thinking mini toggles all the way, but not like what you suggested. Again, thanks.

4) Again, thanks for phase on the middle. I was thinking of doing it on the humbucker and that it didn't matter since one pickup being out of phase is sufficient, but I didn't think of the middle one being out of phase with the others and giving more flexibility that way. I do like an out of phase sound in parallel for a very delicate, bright clean sound, so for me the phase switch is highly desired.

5) I'm thinking 12-14k for this, yes. Full Shred territory for sure. I'd use a Full Shred bridge for this but I dislike using the same passive pickup in two builds since there are so many flavors and that seems wasteful.

6) Based on the circular polepieces, the SDX seems based on Smith's DiMarzio axes, but I have very little DiMarzio experience generally, especially with their single coils. I'd probably go True Velvet/Super 2 in bridge based on those, but that would be for a brighter HSS style Strat. The Smith Strat I'm working on I'm definitely leaning toward a warmer/older style sound.

I discovered I really prefer Alnico 2's in the neck vs. 5s, so I hope I'll like the A2P singles. To my knowledge Michael Wilton uses a Custom Custom in the bridge at times and I definitely have no problems with an 80s Queensryche tone to round things out.

[Inflames626]

I haven't thought out how much of this will be the most efficient/easier to wire, either. I just want an idea of where to start first and then maybe doing the wiring ideas.

I'll probably wait to see what Sweetwater says about the 3 hole pickguard compatibility and decide from there. Plus concentric pots just seem sexy.

[Inflames626]

Also forgot to mention, beaubrummels , I'd like to incorporate a Shadow killpot into the bridge pickup for soloing if possible, so it might be off limits to do anything with the bridge pickup volume since nothing can be done with the Shadow.

[Inflames626]

Thinking about it a little more closely, it looks like it will have to be:

1) Master volume with Shadow killpot for use with bridge humbucker.

2) 3 way on/on/on DPDT for use with bridge humbucker.

3) Master tone for use with push/pull phase on middle single coil.

I haven't seen any stock Strat pickguards with mini toggle switch holes pre-drilled.

[Inflames626]

I guess I thought the Triple Shot could be used with a Strat pickguard because I thought all a Strat pickguard was was a square for a pickup ring to fit around. The main benefit to a Strat pickguard I thought isn't how the pickups are mounted but rather the ability to pull the pickguard out, flip it over, and do all the wiring on the backside of the pickguard--convenience. This is similar to how RR Vs with control plates are done vs. turning the entire guitar over and working through the back of the control cavity.

[beaubrummels]

Thanks as always beaubrummels for quality advice.

1) I'm somewhat dubious on a tone for both neck and bridge. Since I'll be recording mainly, if I want a warmer single coil tone and a brighter bridge pickup tone, I can just stop recording, roll the tone up or down, and record from that point. I can only see a benefit of two tone controls if you want say full dark on singles, full bright on humbucker, and need to switch between them quickly live, so I see your point about maybe not needing two tones.

2) I thought I listed 5 positions?: 1) neck, 2) neck/middle, 3) neck/middle/humbucker in parallel, 4) middle and humbucker, 5) humbucker. My main confusion was what exactly happens with a single on a 5 way switch. Since many consider a middle single coil somewhat useless I thought it got incorporated into the other pickups because it sounded thin/unpleasing by itself.

3) Thanks for mentioning something I didn't think of with #3. Stuff like that is exactly why I thought it best to ask in this post. Maybe in my head it's just easier for me to think organizationally of two tones on a concentric pot, or two volumes. For some reason a tone also being a switch seems to throw me as unnatural, maybe because I don't use a tone knob much and fear bumping it when pulling the switch and thus accidentally changing the tone. I was thinking mini toggles all the way, but not like what you suggested. Again, thanks.

4) Again, thanks for phase on the middle. I was thinking of doing it on the humbucker and that it didn't matter since one pickup being out of phase is sufficient, but I didn't think of the middle one being out of phase with the others and giving more flexibility that way. I do like an out of phase sound in parallel for a very delicate, bright clean sound, so for me the phase switch is highly desired.

5) I'm thinking 12-14k for this, yes. Full Shred territory for sure. I'd use a Full Shred bridge for this but I dislike using the same passive pickup in two builds since there are so many flavors and that seems wasteful.

6) Based on the circular polepieces, the SDX seems based on Smith's DiMarzio axes, but I have very little DiMarzio experience generally, especially with their single coils. I'd probably go True Velvet/Super 2 in bridge based on those, but that would be for a brighter HSS style Strat. The Smith Strat I'm working on I'm definitely leaning toward a warmer/older style sound.

I discovered I really prefer Alnico 2's in the neck vs. 5s, so I hope I'll like the A2P singles. To my knowledge Michael Wilton uses a Custom Custom in the bridge at times and I definitely have no problems with an 80s Queensryche tone to round things out.

1. Possibly a better option is one tone for middle/neck singles, and one tone for the bridge. That way you can get whatever balance you want. (I have a Strat wired this way.)
2. Maybe I misread the original post. Sorry. Traditional Strat wiring has the middle by itself in position 3. I know people say it's useless. I've actually found it very useful and use it often for rhythm tracks. Kind of depends on what pickup is in the middle. In my Jackson I have an Injector neck, which in that position sounds like a Gibson neck pickup, so it's like I get two different neck sounds out of my Jackson. FWIW Eric Clapton and Jeff Beck spend a fair amount of time on the middle for leads (I know that might not be your style), but I think it's a question of which pickup is in the middle and what amp and tone settings whether it can work for you.
3. Mini toggles are a great choice. I was just throwing out another option.
4. You need two pickups active to perceive flipped phase. So flipping the bridge by itself won't change the sound. You could only get flipped phase in positions 2 and 4 on a traditional Strat, when two pickups are on. That's why I suggested the middle because it's one pickup that affects both 2 and 4.

[Inflames626]

1. You need two pickups active to perceive flipped phase. So flipping the bridge by itself won't change the sound. You could only get flipped phase in positions 2 and 4 on a traditional Strat, when two pickups are on. That's why I suggested the middle because it's one pickup that affects both 2 and 4.
   
   Thanks. On an H/H, I ***thought*** I could hear a very slight difference when a neck pickup is used by itself out of phase, but a greater one when used in the middle toggle position?
   
   Then again, needing the second pickup is why I often wire my passive H H guitars to be volume/volume/tone so I can put the neck pickup out of phase, go to the middle position, and then turn the bridge pickup down to isolate the neck. Then again, this would ground the bridge pickup out and probably defeat the purpose of trying to do phase in the first place.
   
   It probably also explains why I'm hearing a less pronounced difference in my Gibson pickups being out of phase than my Duncans.
   
   Ah, all the things you don't have to think about when you are used to using just EMGs and a master volume.
   
   Thanks for giving me a lot to think about beaubrummels . If bands still did CD booklets you'd get a thanks in my album credits.

[beaubrummels]

[LIST=1]On an H/H, I ***thought*** I could hear a very slight difference when a neck pickup is used by itself out of phase, but a greater one when used in the middle toggle position?

FWIW the only guitar where I've ever heard a difference by flipping the phase of one pickup is on my Brian May guitar, where all the pickups are wired in series. Even the Brian May company says it's not possible for there to be a difference with one pickup flipped by itself. But the only reason I can possibly think of is that when the pickups are wired in series, even if they are not active, there could be a possiblity of those other 2 inductors (pickups) hanging on the circuit affecting the overall outcome of just the one pickup that is active and flipped. I would need someone like Freefrog or with more expertise to check how it might be possible, but I do hear a difference when pickups are wired in series, only one is active, and I flip the phase.

[Top-L]

If I was building a "strat clone" to be able to do stratty things with a humbucker in the bridge, I would look into wiring and pickup options that work with 250K volume and tone controls. I've heard a bridge JB works well with 250K controls. It may just be that easy.

I don't know the best strategy. It may just be best to use 500K/500K controls, and wire the bridge for series and parallel, then use the other single coil positions with resistors so they effectively have 250K strat controls.

If you wire it with 500K controls, it wont sound like a strat imo.

[Inflames626]

If I was building a "strat clone" to be able to do stratty things with a humbucker in the bridge, I would look into wiring and pickup options that work with 250K volume and tone controls. I've heard a bridge JB works well with 250K controls. It may just be that easy.

I don't know the best strategy. It may just be best to use 500K/500K controls, and wire the bridge for series and parallel, then use the other single coil positions with resistors so they effectively have 250K strat controls.

If you wire it with 500K controls, it wont sound like a strat imo.

Top-L, you bring up a good point about pot values. Usually I just worry about them in a bass as I find 500k makes them sound a little too gritty and Lemmy-ish. I'll have to reconsider for guitar. The singles will probably need 250k volume and the humbucker 500k. I'm more concerned about the singles sounding Stratty than the bridge.

Since this will be a warmer Strat, maybe the 500k will be fine in offsetting the Alnico II sound.

The only downside to a 250k pot IMO is when you want a bit more brightness but can't get it. You can always turn a 500k down halfway to try and get close but I dislike adjusting my tone settings on instrument because it is inexact, especially without center detents.

This also leads me to wonder if there are 250k/500k concentric pots or if they have to be the same value.

I may have to sacrifice the killswitch to get more Strat capability. My Jackson DK2S will already combine a killswitch with a Sustainiac for cool effects. Not sure the Strat needs the capability.

If I can find a Fender pickguard predrilled for mini toggles this might not be a problem. That would free up a pot hole by putting the series/split/parallel on a switch, leaving the master volume/killswitch, bridge tone, single tone/phase for the other holes.

[Top-L]

I bet some of the high end HSS Fender Stratocasters have worked out these issues. When in doubt, seek out a wiring diagram from a good, quality instrument.

Just copy the wiring they use for this:

https://www.fender.com/en-US/electri...113912718.html

https://www.strat-talk.com/threads/alien-wiring-on-american-professional-hss.555451/

[beaubrummels]

This also leads me to wonder if there are 250k/500k concentric pots or if they have to be the same value.

You can get either:

https://www.guitarpartsresource.com/electrical_concentricpots.htm

[Mincer]

The Strat I built is HSS, and all 5 positions are hum-cancelling. I use a 500k volume, one 250k for the singles' tone, and 500k for the humbucker.

The neck is rw/rp, and is a Classic Stack
The middle is a Five Two.
The bridge is a 59/Custom Hybrid.

the positions are:
humbucker
middle single w/ 1 coil of the humbucker
split neck with 1 coil of the humbucker
split neck with middle
neck