Gibson 57 classics vintage matched set

[blueman335]

Re: Gibson 57 classics vintage matched set

Dangit, blue, you're gonna sell me on this UOA5 business yet. Bridge JB in the hardtail Soloist, that's where it's going.

I keep trying. It's a great magnet that has many uses. Better than an A2 a lot of times, and God knows how this forum loves A2's. That rounded high end on A2's has plagued me in many PU's (bridge and neck); UOA5's add enough treble so you can get some bite, and you don't have to give up those rich dynamics.

[phraxos5]

Re: Gibson 57 classics vintage matched set

here is a sample of the 57 classic vintage matched set 7.9k b and 8.1 k n.
i cant see any comparison with the stock 57 classic N and 57 classic plus B because they have completely different tone, but I am after the dry honking overdrive like the early 80's tim shaws which I would buy but afraid of getting ripped off. The vintage set is a big step in the right direction but not really there yet. I am trying the SD bonamassas today.

http://soundcloud.com/livedead/gibson-57-classic-vintage

[Markk]

Re: Gibson 57 classics vintage matched set

here is a sample of the 57 classic vintage matched set 7.9k b and 8.1 k n.
i cant see any comparison with the stock 57 classic N and 57 classic plus B because they have completely different tone, but I am after the dry honking overdrive like the early 80's tim shaws which I would buy but afraid of getting ripped off. The vintage set is a big step in the right direction but not really there yet. I am trying the SD bonamassas today.
http://soundcloud.com/livedead/gibso...lassic-vintage

It's an ugly, but quiet, morning here and I can't stop listening to that clip while correcting a research article while drinking some nice hot coffee. Something about the imperfect nature of it...

[phraxos5]

Re: Gibson 57 classics vintage matched set

thew bonomassa pafs are in the les paul trad and here is the clip.

http://soundcloud.com/livedead/blues-vi

comparing the gibson vintage matched set to the bonamassas i first noticed the bottom end(rythym). it changes alot with the Bonamassas because it tightens up a lot but is still there just lets say a more bright character, more dry, tight? there is defintitely bottom end though completely different than the gibson's deep bass which happens to be too muddy all knobs on 10. however when you back off the volume to 8 in the Rytm pos there is a sweet spot which provides many of the same PAF characteristics as the Bonomassas but a with a deep soothing warm bass for a smooth jazz type sound. That sweet spot takes some knob work with the bonomassas and i have yet to really get it like with the gibsons considering the overall brightness of the Bonomassas. With the gibsons there was an amazing sweet spot in the middle position with the lead knob at about 7 and the rythym knob at about 8 and the volumes at about 6(R) and the tones at 7(L) and 4(R). I have yet to find that sweet spot with the bonomassas however they have a sort of all around sweet spot that the gibsons did not have. The other main difference is the bridge pickup, it is brighter and harder than the gibson with a real vintage twang and more bite than the gibson. Both bonamassas are perfectly balanced like the gibsons. I am thinking the bonomassas caught me off guard at how amazing they are and it hasnt resally sunk in kind of like post traumatic stress syndrome, post cognitive tone syndrome if you will. I keep hearing another guitar playing in the background but there is none, kind of like a 12 string but very faint. The Bonomassas are picking up tones that the gibsons did not. Finally I cant say that either is better than the other really but in fact the bonomassas are probably more authentic and realistic PAFs. The Tim Shaw honk is not there with either pick up. I wonder where that sound comes from. that vintage blues honking tone. My conclusion is that there is no comparison of either pick up to anything that comes stock for a les paul under 4000 dollars so I am headed in the right direction with money left over, while I wait for 24 months for my tom holmes custom set.

[ItsaBass]

Re: Gibson 57 classics vintage matched set

'57 Classics are pretty much all huge and honky/squishy midrange, and IME they act like very hot pickups, when, in fact, they are not. I keep mine fairly low in height to help remove some bottom end, but they are still very high in output, very compressed, and have to be picked very lightly to clean them up.

They are tough pickups to get to love, but once you do, they are good. They are warm/chewy/bluesy with low volumes and finger plucking and/or very light flat picking. I think that they are good pickups, but they are not well suited to loud rock-n-roll music. The key IME is that they require a very sensitive touch, and significantly lower gain settings that you might be used to.

I've had a set (regular neck and Plus bridge) in my SG for almost 10 years, and they have given that guitar what I consider its sound; I'd hate to change them out. And FWIW, the guitar sounds very, very close to my 100 percent stock '68 Standard (which has pre-T-Tops in it, I believe). If anything, the '68 is the muddier guitar. I believe the '57's suffer from being put in the wrong hands and used with unsuitable tones/styles/amp settings more than anything else. Think Freddie King rather than Tony Iommi when approaching these pickups, and you will probably be pleased with what you hear.

I think A2 would work great in those pickups for most people if Gibson would simply take about 10 to 15 percent of the wire spins off of each coil, and perhaps get rid of the wax dip. Then again, you've got five varieties of Burstbuckers (I, II, III, Pro neck, and Pro bridge) if you want the less squishy, more clear "vintage" Gibson humbucker sound. You have 490's if you want the "hot but clear vintage" Gibson humbucker sound. '57's are the "warm, fat, muddy vintage" Gibson humbucker sound. All of these are different varieties of PAF-based pickups, and all of those sounds existed in stock Gibsons "back in the day," due to variation in the pickups and in the guitars. Kind of like SD has Seths, PGs, and '59's. A lot of the complaints come from people misunderstanding exactly where they fit into the range of Gibson pickups, and using them in the wrong application IMHO.

I wouldn't pay big bucks for them, but I wouldn't write them off as unusable. I think I paid $140 for my brand new set about 10 years ago via some E-Bay dealer. I've gotten my money's worth since. YMMV.

P.S. They kick ass for country-rock tones too. No other pickup that I have nails the "Honky Tonk Women" tone so well.

[phraxos5]

Re: Gibson 57 classics vintage matched set

thanks for the reply, very informative. I think I may be close to splitting hairs on the 57 classic thing but there is a big difference in tone btween the regular 57 classic that come stock with the les paul guitars and the packaged "vintage matched set" that you buy seperately for 379.00. They are sold out on the gibson website and most sellers as well funny enough i got my second set from best buys online. Now, the question I have and the original poster is what the difference is, Well all I can say is that they sound completely different and better then the pickups that came with the guitar which are also 57 classics. No sense in going in circles over it so I will call gibson and try to find out the facts on the vintage matched set since they do sound way different. Seymore's have a better PAF tone which makes me think they may be long magnet rough cast and contain more of the vintage spec parts butyrate bobbins etc than the gibsons. I seriously doubt gibson did anything more than pay special attention to the winding of the set and matching them. But I am sure seymore duncan and joe bonamassa did attempt to clone the real pafs in joes guitar so they are actually vintage spec. explaining the difference in tone. It is interesting that symores price on his set is exactly the same as the online price for the vintage matched set from gibson. I guess they realized there was money to be made with the PAF thing so they did a vintage matched set as well. Anyway glad they did that because they all sound amazing so it is good for tone-philes.

[Lewguitar]

Re: Gibson 57 classics vintage matched set

I've owned a few of those old 50's paf's and today's pickups that sound the closest to my favorite sounding 50's pafs use ALNICO 2 for the magnet.

I think a lot of the dislike of 57 Classics comes from guys who are using them with the factory stock 300K pots. 50's and 60's Gibson used 500K pots and that's what I always use with paf style pickups.

I've read that Gibson has finally gone back back to using 500K but I don't know for certain.

Here's a good link with 50's Gibson paf info: http://home.provide.net/~cfh/paf.html