Phat Cat vs P-Rails
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metalmachine
New member
Re: Phat Cat vs P-Rails
i have been wondering this myself
i have been wondering this myself
frankfalbo
In Fluence Y'all
Re: Phat Cat vs P-Rails
There were threads on this way back when P-Rails were launched. The basic premise is that they're both accurate P90 coil shapes and magnet structures. They both have to deal with the space limitations of a humbucker route. The Phat Cat loses a little more winding space because it has to fit under a cover.
So without divulging any trade secrets, its safe to say the P-Rails (P90 coil) has more wire on it, and is powered by Alnico 5 magnets. So it is bolder and louder. The Phat Cat has less wire but is powered by Alnico 2 magnets. So it's sweeter and a little more polite.
But as for comparing it to some other full sized P-90, you have to make fair comparisons knowing the differences. So the Phat Cat sounds "a lot" like a comparable vintage wind Alnico 2 P-90, while the P-Rails sounds "a lot" like a vintage wind Alnico 5 P-90 in the neck, and a medium output P-90 in the bridge.
There were threads on this way back when P-Rails were launched. The basic premise is that they're both accurate P90 coil shapes and magnet structures. They both have to deal with the space limitations of a humbucker route. The Phat Cat loses a little more winding space because it has to fit under a cover.
So without divulging any trade secrets, its safe to say the P-Rails (P90 coil) has more wire on it, and is powered by Alnico 5 magnets. So it is bolder and louder. The Phat Cat has less wire but is powered by Alnico 2 magnets. So it's sweeter and a little more polite.
But as for comparing it to some other full sized P-90, you have to make fair comparisons knowing the differences. So the Phat Cat sounds "a lot" like a comparable vintage wind Alnico 2 P-90, while the P-Rails sounds "a lot" like a vintage wind Alnico 5 P-90 in the neck, and a medium output P-90 in the bridge.
blueman335
Mojo's Minions
Re: Phat Cat vs P-Rails
I've got 9 Phat Cats, and have taken out all of the A2's and given them to forum members; too dark in the neck slot, and thin and weak in the bridge, at least in guitars most wind up in (LP's, 335's, and SG's). But with other magnets Phat Cats have worked very well for me and some other guys here.
I've got 9 Phat Cats, and have taken out all of the A2's and given them to forum members; too dark in the neck slot, and thin and weak in the bridge, at least in guitars most wind up in (LP's, 335's, and SG's). But with other magnets Phat Cats have worked very well for me and some other guys here.
Andrew Lamprecht
Minion of One
Re: Phat Cat vs P-Rails
The originals used until 1946 I believe used A3s and all the ones from that point on were A5s......
The originals used until 1946 I believe used A3s and all the ones from that point on were A5s......
blueman335
Mojo's Minions
Re: Phat Cat vs P-Rails
No. When I want a P-90, I just use a P-90. For a PU mix, I like an HB bridge and a P-90 neck.
No. When I want a P-90, I just use a P-90. For a PU mix, I like an HB bridge and a P-90 neck.
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MonkeyDungologist
Re: Phat Cat vs P-Rails
factor in your style and amp; the metal cover on the phat cat is actually quite effective for noise-reduction, so it's great for dirty P90 sounds (you may want to swap out the A2 mags though, depending on the guitar)
as much as i like the phat cats, i would go for a p-rails.
factor in your style and amp; the metal cover on the phat cat is actually quite effective for noise-reduction, so it's great for dirty P90 sounds (you may want to swap out the A2 mags though, depending on the guitar)
as much as i like the phat cats, i would go for a p-rails.
timj46
New member
Re: Phat Cat vs P-Rails
I cant decide between these two pickups for a project guitar, an Epi LP Junior bought very cheaply. The P Rails would give more diversity but the phat cat would be a little more traditional junior (I have a Gibson LPJ also) on paper the outputs of the two look quite different and (I am a novice here) I am under the impression that no type of traditional dogear p.90 will fit this guitar so its the P Rail or a H/B sized p90. I take it you have replaced your A2's with 5's?
ItsaBass
New member
Re: Phat Cat vs P-Rails
Various magnets, with A5 being the most common in the '60's, and A4 being a 70% likelihood in the late '50's. The other 30% were A2, 3, and 5. (This is as best as can be figured; it's based on Gibson's materials purchase records.) I'm not sure about what was used before the humbuckers came out in '57. Other than choosing Alnico bars within a certain range of strength, not much hair splitting was done in terms of magnet selection.
Also, there may be differences in the exact formulas that were used vs. those used today, not to mention that the ore itself is probably coming from different places, and being processed with different methods and materials. And the magnetization/orientation process itself may be different in some ways.
What I'm basically trying to say is that even if we could say for sure what magnets came in what pickups in what years, it would likely be useless knowledge anyhow. Who's to say that an A5 bar you get today won't be different than what Gibson was getting back then? For that matter, who's to say what Gibson got back then or what we get today isn't different batch-to-batch or source-to-source? IMO, the best thing to do if you are into fine tuning with mag swaps is to ignore the past; it's futile to try and match things exactly...and even if you could, you might not even like the results. Just pick a magnet supplier, and buy several Alnico grades in bulk. That gives you the consistency you need to learn the differences between the materials that are available today, i.e. to be able to effectively fine tune your pickups.
Various magnets, with A5 being the most common in the '60's, and A4 being a 70% likelihood in the late '50's. The other 30% were A2, 3, and 5. (This is as best as can be figured; it's based on Gibson's materials purchase records.) I'm not sure about what was used before the humbuckers came out in '57. Other than choosing Alnico bars within a certain range of strength, not much hair splitting was done in terms of magnet selection.
Also, there may be differences in the exact formulas that were used vs. those used today, not to mention that the ore itself is probably coming from different places, and being processed with different methods and materials. And the magnetization/orientation process itself may be different in some ways.
What I'm basically trying to say is that even if we could say for sure what magnets came in what pickups in what years, it would likely be useless knowledge anyhow. Who's to say that an A5 bar you get today won't be different than what Gibson was getting back then? For that matter, who's to say what Gibson got back then or what we get today isn't different batch-to-batch or source-to-source? IMO, the best thing to do if you are into fine tuning with mag swaps is to ignore the past; it's futile to try and match things exactly...and even if you could, you might not even like the results. Just pick a magnet supplier, and buy several Alnico grades in bulk. That gives you the consistency you need to learn the differences between the materials that are available today, i.e. to be able to effectively fine tune your pickups.
Empty Pockets
BadHairDayologist
Re: Phat Cat vs P-Rails
It's my personal opinion that the P-Rails should be the only electric guitar pickup.
It's my personal opinion that the P-Rails should be the only electric guitar pickup.
S
steam-powered
Guest
Re: Phat Cat vs P-Rails
Agree: P-Rails are louder and bolder with the Alnico 5 magnets
Disagree: While the Phat Cats aren't as loud, and are certainly sweeter and more polite, they are NOT gentle by any means. They can rock a tweed amp like no tomorrow! At factor spec (between 1/8" and 1/16") they had too much P90 growl, had to lower them about a 1/16 of an inch for sweeter jazz tones.
True story: Just two days ago I was ready to sell my Phat Cats (in a chambered LP) and explore other options cause my "rock" and "blues" tones are covered by other guitars. Yesterday I gave them one last chance, lowered the height below the lowest recommended spec, and was astounded by the wonderful "vintage" jazz and swing tones I could get through both BF and tweed amps. I've read that lowering below spec can squash some tone but they work perfectly for my needs. Decided against selling cause they sounded so nice.
I both agree and disagree, from my experience.
Agree: P-Rails are louder and bolder with the Alnico 5 magnets
Disagree: While the Phat Cats aren't as loud, and are certainly sweeter and more polite, they are NOT gentle by any means. They can rock a tweed amp like no tomorrow! At factor spec (between 1/8" and 1/16") they had too much P90 growl, had to lower them about a 1/16 of an inch for sweeter jazz tones.
True story: Just two days ago I was ready to sell my Phat Cats (in a chambered LP) and explore other options cause my "rock" and "blues" tones are covered by other guitars. Yesterday I gave them one last chance, lowered the height below the lowest recommended spec, and was astounded by the wonderful "vintage" jazz and swing tones I could get through both BF and tweed amps. I've read that lowering below spec can squash some tone but they work perfectly for my needs. Decided against selling cause they sounded so nice.
After lowering the height, I found the neck absolutely perfect for jazz. To my ears, the bridge was anything but weak at factory spec. In fact, too strong for my needs, requiring taking down just over 1/16" to tame it down.
Depends on the application. No way I'd ever put a set of p-rails in any of my guitars, but I could see why folks who need a louder pickups would like them. Too difficult to tame for jazz, IMO.
Re: Phat Cat vs P-Rails
Well, no.
It's easy to tame for jazz. In fact the P-90 in the P-Rails does jazz very nicely. Some of the best early Jazz tones were achieved on P-90's and the P-90 coil in the P-Rails can duplicate that tone with ease (may have to lower the pup slightly and/or use the vol pot on your guitar).
I've been playing the P-Rails for about 4 years now and I have to say it is by far my favorite pup for versatility (I play covers, mostly classic rock so versatility is the name of the game). It is capable of extremely gorgeous clean tones...very rich, nice mids, crystaline highs, solid lows, cleaner and more bite than a bucker but more fullness than a single). It is because of the P-Rails that I have developed an everlasting love for P-90's. Also, with the Rail coil oriented next to the bridge, country twang is not out of the picture either (esp. with an A8 mag next to the Rail coil). With both coils in parallel, the P-Rails has a nice airy clean quality to it.
And with two magnets in it, you have the ability to tweak the heck out of it to get just the exact tone and response that you're after.
I've done a lot of experimenting with the P-Rails and finally ended with the Rail next to the bridge (speaking about the bridge pup position). With an A8 next to the Rail coil and an A5 next to the P-90 coil and a Triple Shot mounting ring, there isn't anything I can't do with this pup.
You really owe it to yourself to try the P-Rails...experiment with orientation and magnets and play the heck out of it. If you put some time into it, you will reap great rewards.
Well, no.
It's easy to tame for jazz. In fact the P-90 in the P-Rails does jazz very nicely. Some of the best early Jazz tones were achieved on P-90's and the P-90 coil in the P-Rails can duplicate that tone with ease (may have to lower the pup slightly and/or use the vol pot on your guitar).
I've been playing the P-Rails for about 4 years now and I have to say it is by far my favorite pup for versatility (I play covers, mostly classic rock so versatility is the name of the game). It is capable of extremely gorgeous clean tones...very rich, nice mids, crystaline highs, solid lows, cleaner and more bite than a bucker but more fullness than a single). It is because of the P-Rails that I have developed an everlasting love for P-90's. Also, with the Rail coil oriented next to the bridge, country twang is not out of the picture either (esp. with an A8 mag next to the Rail coil). With both coils in parallel, the P-Rails has a nice airy clean quality to it.
And with two magnets in it, you have the ability to tweak the heck out of it to get just the exact tone and response that you're after.
I've done a lot of experimenting with the P-Rails and finally ended with the Rail next to the bridge (speaking about the bridge pup position). With an A8 next to the Rail coil and an A5 next to the P-90 coil and a Triple Shot mounting ring, there isn't anything I can't do with this pup.
You really owe it to yourself to try the P-Rails...experiment with orientation and magnets and play the heck out of it. If you put some time into it, you will reap great rewards.
