Single coil pickup thought...

[El Dunco]

Could one potentially create a pickup in the style of a true single coil or P-90 and somehow run only the 60hz hum through to the output in reverse phase without the sound of the strings, therefore only removing the 60hz hum and not altering the tone in any other way?

Maybe by having one of the coils facing inwards towards the guitar or something?...

Just an idea.

[FuseG4]

Re: Single coil pickup thought...

Are you talking about a "dummy coil"?
like this?

http://frettech.com/dummy/

[El Dunco]

Re: Single coil pickup thought...

Oh! I guess I am!

Have they caught on?

[jumble jumble]

Re: Single coil pickup thought...

Not really. A stack is basically a single coil with a pickup stuck to the bottom. Some Suhr guitars have a dummy coil. Apparently it still affects tone.

I actually think with the SD Stack+ pickups and the DMZ Area ones, along with stuff like Kinmans, we're in an age where noiseless single coil sound is totally achievable unless you're a cork-sniffer.

[LReese]

Re: Single coil pickup thought...

The Suhr/Ilitch units are a bit different than the usual dummy coils as they are very low impedance coils. Very effective and IMO transparent.

[ArtieToo]

Re: Single coil pickup thought...

One downside to "dummy" coils is that the voltage from the pickups doesn't know that it shouldn't travel through that coil. Electricity is funny that way. Therefore, it has some impact on the character of your pickups tone. With modern pups, like the STK-Sx series of singles, (which really nail the true single-coil vibe), and all the stack singles available, it just strikes me as an unneeded device.

Just my 2-cents worth.

Oh yeah . . . and creative wiring.

[RayBarbeeMusic]

Re: Single coil pickup thought...

The way you get around that is you don't design a single coil then stick a dummy coil on it, you design the pickup from the ground up knowing that coil will be there. The newer DiMarzio and Kinman hum cancelling coils are under 1K dcr, and the pickups are designed knowing that will be there. There are actually some advantages to it. They aren't saying "hey lets design a great sounding single coil then stick a dummy coil on it and hope for the best, that it doesnt F it up too much". In my experience, the real top of the line noiseless (DiMarzio Areas, newer Kinman stuff) sound better than singles with the BPSSC. I tried a truckload of them.

Sort of like, if you just stick a ceramic magnet in a pickup that was designed for alnico, often times it can sound harsh, but if you design it right from the ground up with ceramic in mind, it can sound fantastic.

[idsnowdog]

Re: Single coil pickup thought...

I would think there would be a good market for a passive to active noise canceling preamp system that could be retrofitted to existing single coil guitars. It could be a volume control replacement like the Blackout preamp and use a summing circuit to do active noise cancellation. Basically it would mix a normal and inverted signal to get a noiseless output. This system could use existing noise cancelling technology from hearing aids and headphones. I'm pretty sure that some of the active pickups already use these principles?

[LReese]

Re: Single coil pickup thought...

I would think there would be a good market for a passive to active noise canceling preamp system that could be retrofitted to existing single coil guitars. It could be a volume control replacement like the Blackout preamp and use a summing circuit to do active noise cancellation. Basically it would mix a normal and inverted signal to get a noiseless output. This system could use existing noise cancelling technology from hearing aids and headphones. I'm pretty sure that some of the active pickups already use these principles?

Similar to the Ernie Ball system?

[idsnowdog]

Re: Single coil pickup thought...

Similar to the Ernie Ball system?

I am not familiar with the Ernie Ball system?

[LReese]

Re: Single coil pickup thought...

To put it briefly, its an inductor (dummy coil) hooked up to a buffer circuit. The hum from the inductor is summed with the signal from passive pickups.

[idsnowdog]

Re: Single coil pickup thought...

To put it briefly, its an inductor (dummy coil) hooked up to a buffer circuit. The hum from the inductor is summed with the signal from passive pickups.

No this would split the signal into positive and negative signals and then mix the two to cancel noise. There is no hum cancelling coil.

[uOpt]

Re: Single coil pickup thought...

Could one potentially create a pickup in the style of a true single coil or P-90 and somehow run only the 60hz hum through to the output in reverse phase without the sound of the strings, therefore only removing the 60hz hum and not altering the tone in any other way?

Maybe by having one of the coils facing inwards towards the guitar or something?...

Just an idea.

The problem is that the additional circuit cannot be limited to the other coil. It will affect the coil you want unaffected, too. You will need to change impedance (preamp etc) before messing with the signal.

Also, the presence of the opposing magnets will change sound. Even if you turn one coil off the magnets of that coil are still active and change the field.

I posted this before but here is about the only thing to get real hum canceling:

• Full normal Strat or P90 or whatever.
• Blind coil under the pickguard or whereever. You don't need to remove the magnets if it is far enough away from the strings. You don't need reverse wind, just reverse the wires. So you can just use the same pickup as the main one.
• You must change impedance before mixing these two signals, there is no other way. If you don't do that then the blind coil will screw up the whole thing with it's capacitance, resistance and inductance.
• In practice that means one preamp each on real coil and dummy coil.
• You must have two preamps because impedance needs to be changed before mixing the two.
• Make sure there is something inside the preamp to simulate the load capacitance of the guitar cable and if not, add a similar load capacitor. Likewise the input impedance of the preamp needs to be what you want and use in your normal rig. (aka if you use a Marshall or Fender amp with 1 Mohm input impedance then your preamp better have about the same 1 Mohm, and while you are at it simulate the volume pot load, too)
• The only thing that's really complicated is simulating a normal passive guitar's volume and tone controls if you aren't willing to just pick one position. You will have to use dual-slider pots and control each coil individually. But you might be OK just wiring up something static and then using a regular treble control after the preamps.

Have fun

[El Dunco]

Re: Single coil pickup thought...

I was thinking something like the delta wiring system in the Strat, except the other pickup is... all the way over there not actually picking up any string sound :P

Even though it's really stupid and impractical and no-one would actually try it, could you in theory use really long leads and have the middle pickup outside somewhere, maybe in the bathroom or on the roof and hope someone doesn't pick it up and run off with it?