Wiring 1 P Rail to 1 5 way (super?) Switch

[S1Player]

Hello Everyone - I am new to the forum and have only recently researched Seymour Duncans. But I like what I am seeing of both and would like to use P Rails and a Cool Rails set up in an HSH Strat.

Trying to find a way to get every combination out of an HSH P Rail, Cool Rail Set up.

First Question: is it possible to wire 1 P Rail to a 5 Way Switch to get the following combinations? 1. PUP off. 2. Rail Only 3. P90 only 4. Humbucker Series, 5. Humbucker Parallel? btw - this is my preferred order on the switch options, but another question follows below on that.

Second Question: If the answer is "yes" to the first question, does that 5 way switch need to be a "super 5 way switch" to facilitate the series and parallel options?

Third Question: If the answer is "yes" to the first question, can the selector be set up with options in that order? Or, is there something unique in how it has to be wired that would dictate a different order for the options. For example, where the humbucker options have to be between the Rail only and P90 only.

My thinking is having 1 5 way switch per PUP to control each PUP individually. Most switching modes for P Rails seem more complicated, usually only allow a P90 Mode and Rail Mode via push-pull or switch (i'd like to be able to Rail in the bridge and P90 in the neck and vice versa), and most don't allow for splitting the cool rail.

So, is it feasible to control all the modes of the P Rail humbucker with a 5 way switch? And, can the order of those 5 options be chosen or are the dictated in some way by the wiring? And, would the 5 way switches need to be "super" 5 way switches or just standard?

Thanks everyone in advance for your help.

[scarr]

Re: Wiring 1 P Rail to 1 5 way (super?) Switch

1) Yes.
2) Yes.
3) Yes. The advantage of a super switch is you have to connect everything.

I'd be concerned about the amount of cavity space two super switches will take. You haven't said what you'd do about the Cool Rails either yet.

Depending how set you are, this is a diagram for having the north coil/series/south coil on an SPDT mini on/off/on toggle switch, with the parallel option on a DPDT push/pull pot. The following diagram is from a Strat I assembled with two Lace "humbuckers", so I could wire each with whichever combo I wanted. I then had a single super switch for neck/series-out-of-phase/parallel/series/bridge. Loads of options, with what looks like a normal Strat with two mini toggles next to the tone knobs.



For size/congestion reference, this is what the pickguard looked like pre-wiring (I used DPDTs for the mini switches because I found them first.):

[hermetico]

Re: Wiring 1 P Rail to 1 5 way (super?) Switch

Hello Everyone - I am new to the forum and have only recently researched Seymour Duncans. But I like what I am seeing of both and would like to use P Rails and a Cool Rails set up in an HSH Strat.

Trying to find a way to get every combination out of an HSH P Rail, Cool Rail Set up.

First Question: is it possible to wire 1 P Rail to a 5 Way Switch to get the following combinations? 1. PUP off. 2. Rail Only 3. P90 only 4. Humbucker Series, 5. Humbucker Parallel? btw - this is my preferred order on the switch options, but another question follows below on that.

Second Question: If the answer is "yes" to the first question, does that 5 way switch need to be a "super 5 way switch" to facilitate the series and parallel options?

Third Question: If the answer is "yes" to the first question, can the selector be set up with options in that order? Or, is there something unique in how it has to be wired that would dictate a different order for the options. For example, where the humbucker options have to be between the Rail only and P90 only.

My thinking is having 1 5 way switch per PUP to control each PUP individually. Most switching modes for P Rails seem more complicated, usually only allow a P90 Mode and Rail Mode via push-pull or switch (i'd like to be able to Rail in the bridge and P90 in the neck and vice versa), and most don't allow for splitting the cool rail.

So, is it feasible to control all the modes of the P Rail humbucker with a 5 way switch? And, can the order of those 5 options be chosen or are the dictated in some way by the wiring? And, would the 5 way switches need to be "super" 5 way switches or just standard?

Thanks everyone in advance for your help.

For all those combos, you need a 5 throws and 4 poles switch (4P5T) of any kind.
The Fender superswitch is one of this kind (4P5T) but, you have other options, in blade switches (as Megaswitches are) and rotary switches (double-waffer 4P5T) but, usually is easier to find a 4P4T or 4P6T rotary than a 4P5T one.
A rotary can take slightly more room than a pot and more or less same depth than a pull/push.

Finally, tone-wise, people with P-Rails seem to love: coils in series (standard humbucking mode), P-90 and Rails alone but, no so much people like coils in parallel with those particular pickups.
If you reduce your needed combos to three (humbucker, P-90 and Rail) then, you can go for even a simple SPDT on/off/on (or DPDT on/on/on, or DPDT on/off/on) wich will require practically no room in your guitar cavity.
FYI, they would take the space of one of those two rows of three pins that you can see in that blue switches on the attached pic of previous post.

Just my 2 cts.

IMHO, I will go this way:

1 x SPDT on/off/on for each P-Rail, to have: P90 / Humbucker / Rail
1 x Super-switch to get any kind of pickups combinations as:
1. Neck
2. Neck + middle
3. Neck + bridge
4. Middle + bridge
5. Bridge

And then, you can think on what makes more sense about to have 1 volume and 2 tones, 3 volumes, 2 volumes and 1 tone or whatever else.
You could even have one of those as a pull/push pot, to change the "mode" and overwrite the combos in the superswitch (by example, putting pickups in series, instead of parallel and adding the middle alone sound...).

[S1Player]

Re: Wiring 1 P Rail to 1 5 way (super?) Switch

Hi Scarr - thanks for the reply. A couple things.

To answer your question on "what I plan to do with the cool rails?" - I am going to use the same 5 way switching option for the cool rails - except in that case it will be 1. PUP (both coils) off, 2. "Back" Single Rail, 3. "front" or neck facing rail, 4. Both in Series. 5. both in parallel. So essentially the cool rail would operate with a 5 way the same as the P Rails.

On the gear page forum, interestingly, I asked the same question and was told I didn't need the super switch for this. That I could use a dual pole and save the space.

So, using a dual pole, it is very tight with 3 switches, 1 Vol, and 1 Pot, but I mocked it up at 100% scale for my particular strat rout (MIM Cray model) and it appears doable.

Thanks for the wiring diagram and the help. For some reason, my brain likes to keep "one switch per PUP" and likes to have the selections on that switch in an order I can easily keep track of. I think the challenge with too many switches and push/pull pots is that I would likely lose track of which switch position is series vs parallel - or which switch value is the P90 vs the Rail, etc. Also, I don't plan to sell this guitar (but who knows) - but if I do I feel like I could explain the 5 way switching per pup much more easily than many on/off switches and/or pots.

Controls are definetly a user centric thing aren't they.

Thanks again for the help.

1) Yes.
2) Yes.
3) Yes. The advantage of a super switch is you have to connect everything.

I'd be concerned about the amount of cavity space two super switches will take. You haven't said what you'd do about the Cool Rails either yet.

Depending how set you are, this is a diagram for having the north coil/series/south coil on an SPDT mini on/off/on toggle switch, with the parallel option on a DPDT push/pull pot. The following diagram is from a Strat I assembled with two Lace "humbuckers", so I could wire each with whichever combo I wanted. I then had a single super switch for neck/series-out-of-phase/parallel/series/bridge. Loads of options, with what looks like a normal Strat with two mini toggles next to the tone knobs.

[ATTACH=CONFIG]46649[/ATTACH]

For size/congestion reference, this is what the pickguard looked like pre-wiring (I used DPDTs for the mini switches because I found them first.):
[ATTACH=CONFIG]46650[/ATTACH]

[S1Player]

Re: Wiring 1 P Rail to 1 5 way (super?) Switch

Hi Hermetico - thanks for your suggestions. Will think these through as a move.

While I do see the benefit in reducing the selection options - like removing parallel humbucker mode - and that it makes the switching and wiring easier - I have discovered new sounds on other guitars that I wouldn't be able to get if I couldn't select all the combo's. For example - I am intrigued by the idea of combining a Neck Series and Bridge Parallel. Or a Rail or P90 and a parallel. Etc. With a switching option that allows every possible combo - I feel like I could discover some new tones that I like.

For example, I have an HSH guitar that has 5 switches to turn on/off each individual lace sensor coil. Have come up with some incredible tones using "unusual" combinations of coils on that guitar. So, that convinced me to try to get as many combos out of this HSH P Rail Cool Rail set up as possible.

Thanks again for your guidance.

For all those combos, you need a 5 throws and 4 poles switch (4P5T) of any kind.
The Fender superswitch is one of this kind (4P5T) but, you have other options, in blade switches (as Megaswitches are) and rotary switches (double-waffer 4P5T) but, usually is easier to find a 4P4T or 4P6T rotary than a 4P5T one.
A rotary can take slightly more room than a pot and more or less same depth than a pull/push.

Finally, tone-wise, people with P-Rails seem to love: coils in series (standard humbucking mode), P-90 and Rails alone but, no so much people like coils in parallel with those particular pickups.
If you reduce your needed combos to three (humbucker, P-90 and Rail) then, you can go for even a simple SPDT on/off/on (or DPDT on/on/on, or DPDT on/off/on) wich will require practically no room in your guitar cavity.
FYI, they would take the space of one of those two rows of three pins that you can see in that blue switches on the attached pic of previous post.

Just my 2 cts.

IMHO, I will go this way:

1 x SPDT on/off/on for each P-Rail, to have: P90 / Humbucker / Rail
1 x Super-switch to get any kind of pickups combinations as:
1. Neck
2. Neck + middle
3. Neck + bridge
4. Middle + bridge
5. Bridge

And then, you can think on what makes more sense about to have 1 volume and 2 tones, 3 volumes, 2 volumes and 1 tone or whatever else.
You could even have one of those as a pull/push pot, to change the "mode" and overwrite the combos in the superswitch (by example, putting pickups in series, instead of parallel and adding the middle alone sound...).

[hermetico]

Re: Wiring 1 P Rail to 1 5 way (super?) Switch

Hi Hermetico - thanks for your suggestions. Will think these through as a move.

While I do see the benefit in reducing the selection options - like removing parallel humbucker mode - and that it makes the switching and wiring easier - I have discovered new sounds on other guitars that I wouldn't be able to get if I couldn't select all the combo's. For example - I am intrigued by the idea of combining a Neck Series and Bridge Parallel. Or a Rail or P90 and a parallel. Etc. With a switching option that allows every possible combo - I feel like I could discover some new tones that I like.

For example, I have an HSH guitar that has 5 switches to turn on/off each individual lace sensor coil. Have come up with some incredible tones using "unusual" combinations of coils on that guitar. So, that convinced me to try to get as many combos out of this HSH P Rail Cool Rail set up as possible.

Thanks again for your guidance.

My suggestion is to use a blade switch to combine pickups, as in any standard Strato and then, to use a couple of Rotary Switches to select the "inner" modes for each P-RAIL. I guess Triple Shots are out of your scope because you want "direct" selections.
I don't believe you could fit a couple of super switches there.

Answering your questions:

Q1:
Yes, it's possible.
You could choose any combination of the 6 possible sounds out of a humbucker (coils in parallel in phase, coils in parallel oop, coils in series in phase, coils in series oop, split to A, split to B). Some make more sense, some are just for a few.

Q2:
Yes, you need some 4P5T switch for that, as discussed.

Q3:
With a switch having 5 real throws (oposite to the 3-real throws and 2-notch throws of an standard strato switch) and 4 poles (instead of the two poles of a strato switch), you can select any combo for each position, there is nothing that limits the order, other than your willing.

Here you have an example on how to wire each P-rail individually with a 6 positions rotary.

http://hermeticoguitar.blogspot.com....y-part-07.html