P-Rails

[Alfonse]

I just bought a new Godin Icon 2 Conv. with two P-Rails. Godin is a company of few words. does anyone know if there is the newer P-Rail Bridge pick-up in these or are they both the original P-Rails?

Secondly, I'm curious regarding the P-90 function of the P-rail. Is it equivalent to other duncan P-90's or is it compromised because it is a combination pick-up?

They sound great. I really like the humbucking sound because i think you get a strong P-90 Flavor in it when combined with the Alnico 5 rail pickup. The Single coil rail is
some what restrained by itself, in my opinion.

Thanks in advance for any replies!

[Scott Olson]

Re: P-Rails

I just bought a new Godin Icon 2 Conv. with two P-Rails. Godin is a company of few words. does anyone know if there is the newer P-Rail Bridge pick-up in these or are they both the original P-Rails?

Secondly, I'm curious regarding the P-90 function of the P-rail. Is it equivalent to other duncan P-90's or is it compromised because it is a combination pick-up?

They sound great. I really like the humbucking sound because i think you get a strong P-90 Flavor in it when combined with the Alnico 5 rail pickup. The Single coil rail is
some what restrained by itself, in my opinion.

Thanks in advance for any replies!

Hey there, there isn't any new or old versions, just regular and hot. The P-90 is the real deal, fat and with plenty of attitude.

[frankfalbo]

Re: P-Rails

The Hot released a year after the original ones. So when he asks if it's "the newer bridge pickup" he's referring to the Hot.

But yes, Alfonse I think the Godins come with Original in the bridge and neck positions.

There aren't really any P90's in the regular line up that are exactly like the P-Rails P90. The neck is closest to an SP90-1 Vintage neck model, but the bridge model, with a DCR around 10k is a little hotter and more aggressive than the SP90-1 bridge model. But they're not the same as any existing wind.

[Alfonse]

Re: P-Rails

Frank,

Do you think it would improve the guitar if i were to load a Bridge P-Rail in the Bridge spot? My biggest issue with the guitar is that it sounds muddy. I think that's more to do with the construction than the pick-ups.
Godin said that they chambered the body for comfort and not to change the sound, but I think chambering must affect the sound. I't simple physics. Mahogany and Sapele won't sound like Maple.

I'm hoping that if i put the hotter P-Rail in the bridge position, I'll get more definition, but i think the opposite could occur.

[frankfalbo]

Re: P-Rails

The P-Rails Hot is thicker sounding. Based on what you're saying, I would leave the original. I'm sure they're using 500k pots but check anyway. You can flip the bridge P-Rail around physically, then the rail coil is right near the bridge. This will brighten up Series & Rail with hardly any difference in the P90 sound. You could also wire it in Parallel which yields a more vintage HB sound.

[GuitarDoc]

Re: P-Rails

You are right when you say the opposite will happen. The original P-Rail has a bit more clarity than the "hot" or newer version. The more winds of the "hot" will give it more output and more mids which will make it drive your amp harder. Also the A8 magnets in the "hot" do the same thing, giving it even more mids and more output. That's not a bad thing if that's what you want, but since you want clarity, I'd stick with the original P-Rail.

To help beef up the Rail coil so it doesn't sound so "restrained", exchange the A5 mag next to the Rail with an A8 mag. I've done a lot of experimenting with the P-Rails ever since they came out, and currently own at least a half dozen of them in my guitars. I love these pups for their excellent P-90 tone and their versatility, but as you say, the Rail is a bit weak. Putting an A8 mag next to the rail definitely gives it a thicker tone with a bit more output so it can better "compete" with the P-90 coil. And in parallel mode it sounds very chimey and more unique (less like the pure P-90 tone) due to the greater influence of the Rail coil on the total tone.

[Alfonse]

Re: P-Rails

Wouldn't having more mid's give me more definition and less muddiness? Also, if i replaced the A5 with an A8, wouldn't I have the same thing as the hotter P-Rail?

I like the P-90 tone and find the humbucking tone somewhat unique due to the P-90 character. But, I'm looking for more definition and less muddiness.
I play through a Blackstar HT-60 Stage and find the P-90 breaking up at low settings. It sounds much better through my '65 Twin Reverb RI.

I guess, I'm confused. I think the hotter P-rail would create even more distortion through the Blackstar, but would it give me more mids and thus more definition?

[GuitarDoc]

Re: P-Rails

Definition comes more from the upper mids and highs, A8 adds more mid to lower mids which contribute to muddiness. An A5 reduces all mids considerably, but pups with A5 mags have very good definition (of course this is very general, so don't blast me for making a generality).

Replacing an A5 with an A8 in your P-Rail will NOT give you a "hot" P-Rail!!! The "hot" P-Rail is wound hotter than the original P-Rail. Changing the magnet(s) will not get you there. Also remember that the P-Rail, like any P-90, has two magnets unlike the majority of humbuckers which have only one.

The Rail coil has more definition than the P-90 coil. Increasing the contribution of the Rail to the humbucking tone will increase definition of the pup. Putting an A8 mag next to the Rail coil will increase its contribution to the overall tone of the humbucker.

The hotter P-Rail will indeed create more distortion than the original P-Rail. But in reality, we are really splitting hairs when comparing the definition of the original P-Rail to the same pup with one A8 next to the Rail coil. I seriously doubt that you or anyone else could ever hear a difference in definition between the two.

[Alfonse]

Re: P-Rails

Yes- These discussion can be down right obsessive! I bet you probably couldn't here the difference from such a minor change. Let me ask another obsessive question.

If i were to put the newer Bridge P-rail pick-up into my Icon, I would have the original one left over. I was thinking about putting that in the bridge position of my AMSTD Strat.
I think it would sound excellent in an alder or ash guitar. It would give me the options of the P-90 sound instead of just a bucker and single coil. It would also reduce the muddiness of the P-Rail.

Maybe i should get a quote for Duncan for a S/S/ P-90 loaded pick guard? I bet it would be really expensive to wire that kind of arrangement, installing switches, etc.

[GuitarDoc]

Re: P-Rails

I would put the riginal P-Rail in your Godin and the Hot Bridge P-Rail in the Strat.

Don't worry about getting a quote. It would be no problem wiring it yourself however you wish. When you decide what you want, we'll help you with the wiring.

[Alfonse]

Re: P-Rails

Thanks! I'll take you up on that. All I need to do now is get my Icon back from the shop and order the P-Bridge. But, I'm thinking of replacing my single coils in the strat with maybe Rio Grandes or another better pickup.
That's why I thought about the possibility of a loaded pickgard. I don't know which Strat Replacements to get. The stock ones on my AMSTD seem pretty lame to me. The Two single coils I have on my Godin Session
blow them out of the water. Better power, more quack, better chimes, etc. i know the Godin pickup is actually a bar even though it looks like it has poles. The Godin 2 Single coils have poles and are much stronger
that the stock Fenders also.

Sorry to have changed the subject! But I'd like better single coils and the hot P-Rail in my Strat. That would sound great.

[Alfonse]

Re: P-Rails

I did get an answer from godin Service and it is the standard P-Rail in both the neck and bridge of the Icon 2 Conv.

[Alfonse]

Re: P-Rails

I saw an article on line that rated P-90's. they rated Duncans, Gibson, Lollar and a few others. Very scientifically done with lots of frequency response graphs. I'm going o see if i can find it again. they concluded that Gibson made the best P-90
and Lollar was a close second. Unfortunately they didn't include the Duncan P-Rail. I really wanted to know how it stacked up!

[GuitarDoc]

Re: P-Rails

Just remember, when it comes to getting the tone you want from your guitar/pup...ears work way better than oscilloscopes and graphs.

IMHO P-Rails P-90 coils sound fantastic...much fuller than Gibson P-90s (although I really like those too).

[Securb]

Re: P-Rails

Yes- These discussion can be down right obsessive! I bet you probably couldn't here the difference from such a minor change. Let me ask another obsessive question.

If i were to put the newer Bridge P-rail pick-up into my Icon, I would have the original one left over. I was thinking about putting that in the bridge position of my AMSTD Strat.
I think it would sound excellent in an alder or ash guitar. It would give me the options of the P-90 sound instead of just a bucker and single coil. It would also reduce the muddiness of the P-Rail.

Maybe i should get a quote for Duncan for a S/S/ P-90 loaded pick guard? I bet it would be really expensive to wire that kind of arrangement, installing switches, etc.

Yes indeed the P-Rails sound insane in the bridge of a Strat. I have one with a 3-way mini toggle that lets me go from the P90-Hum-Rail, the guitar has a ton of sonic options.