Cutting through the mix

[toneseeker74]

I just play at home as a hobby right now, but I hope to put a band together eventually. Guitars are supposed to live in the midrange, and I have Seths, Distortions, and Screamin Demons for my guitars. I'm putting together a bass rig, and I want to make sure the bass cuts through the mix. Listening to sound clips of pickups I think that mid balanced or mid heavy bass pickups cut better than mid scooped pickups, but will a middy bass blur with the guitars?

[jeremy]

Re: Cutting through the mix

are you going to play bass in the band or guitar? if guitar then dont worry about the bass rig.

pups are only one part of the equation. you want the rig as a whole to work together so its hard to speak to a single part without knowing the rest in anything but generalities.

[VHTJay]

Re: Cutting through the mix

I don't think you'd have to worry. Due to the way a guitar and bass are tuned, even if you put a pickup in your bass that emphasized the mids more, the bass still "lives" in the lower frequencies, so to speak. A standard or slightly downtuned guitar is still going accentuate those midrange frequencies much more than a bass. When you start running into problems I find is actually when you start downtuning big-time. When the guitar is tuned down to A or B or whatever some of these 8 string dudes use, the guitar and bass can definitely step on each other.

[toneseeker74]

Re: Cutting through the mix

While I love listening to guitar...hence my reason for trying to play them...I really enjoy playing bass more. I have a PJ bass and a J bass. Using a GK 800RB amp. Still trying to settle on a speaker cabinet. I like the sound of 1x15 cabinets, but the GK puts out less power into an 8-ohm load than a 4-ohm. I do not want to get a 2x15 or even two 1x15 cabinets. If I can find a good 2x12 cab then I'll go that route. As for bass tones, I like the round and powerful tones of John Paul Jones and also the punchy and more middy tones of John Entwistle and Duff McKagan. A bit of ground to cover.

[audiocheck]

Re: Cutting through the mix

The Bass and Guitar should not be competing in the mix.

Your bigger issue will be the bass guitar and Kick Drum. Your other possible issue will be if there are Keyboards in your mix. Keyboards will compete with everything, since it's fundamental frequencies encompass over 7 octaves, not including synthesizes notes.

Things to help the Bass cut through a mix, that I have done are.

Use 2 channels for the bass guitar (think in terms of bi-amp) 1 channel for the lows and 1 channel for the highs. use compression too.

another trick is use a slight amount of Phasing or Chorusing to help the bass guitar stand out in the mix. The slight time (shift) modulation will help it phyco-acoustically stand out in the mix. You can also try copying the bass track and shifting the time of the second track by like 10 milliseconds. This will make it sound like it is doubled, but not modulating.

[cheameup]

Re: Cutting through the mix

If new bands mebers go into a room in the early days with a contrete version of what their "tone " is and refuse tweak it then the band isnt going to work.

put in the pick ups you like then everyone has to tweak the peices of the puzzle to fit together . even the drummer needs to tune his kit to fit the band even if he says he doesnt

as audiocheck said IMHO the kick drum is usally what bass needs to listen for in the mix . the kick and bass will be hitting notes togetehr often so they need to compliment each other

[Zhangliqun]

Re: Cutting through the mix

The Bass and Guitar should not be competing in the mix.

Your bigger issue will be the bass guitar and Kick Drum. Your other possible issue will be if there are Keyboards in your mix. Keyboards will compete with everything, since it's fundamental frequencies encompass over 7 octaves, not including synthesizes notes.

Things to help the Bass cut through a mix, that I have done are.

Use 2 channels for the bass guitar (think in terms of bi-amp) 1 channel for the lows and 1 channel for the highs. use compression too.

another trick is use a slight amount of Phasing or Chorusing to help the bass guitar stand out in the mix. The slight time (shift) modulation will help it phyco-acoustically stand out in the mix. You can also try copying the bass track and shifting the time of the second track by like 10 milliseconds. This will make it sound like it is doubled, but not modulating.

Good advice, but I would add that using delay effects like chorus or extremely short delay can blur the attack of the note a bit. Not a problem on some songs that are kind of slow and spacey but if you're playing funk or other genres that require tight, precise rhythms, it can sometimes be a problem.

One idea that could help when you want to use a chorus is to chorus only the mids on up while the thump-n-bump remains untouched.

[Falloffthebonetone]

Re: Cutting through the mix

If you shoot for a lot of mids and treble in a bass you will cut through any mix without blur, you will also dominate your guitarist and he will hardly be heard unless treble is really boosted and that is harsh on the ears. Unless yoyr band is designed around it like Rush, Yes, the Who, etc, then go for a pickup that has a stronger low mid fundamental and occupy that sonic space.

[El Supremo]

Re: Cutting through the mix

Really depends on what the guitars are going for. I've played bass in bands that had a heavy, thumping, detuned guitar sound and ones that went for a middier sound.
For the first, I would simply boost the mids and for the latter, the bass. Just enough for me to hear myself though. Your guitarist(s) will let you know when you're in the way.
Type of pickups isn't relevant, although I personally prefer active tone control for bass.