Frustration on finding right PUPs

[JoeyAsh]

Hey everybody! I have been playing for over 25 years and have owned over 100 different guitars through my life but I have never had the problem I'm having now. I recently purchased an ESP LTD Elite ST-1 Duncan and love the way it plays. It is truly the best playing guitar that I have ever owned. The problem is that it is the weakest sounding guitar that I have ever owned. It came with a Seymour Duncan Custom in the bridge and it sounded thinner than any single coil guitar that I have played so I decided to swap it out with a JB thinking that it would darken my tone as well as give me a little more output. I was wrong. I am probably being a bit harsh by calling the sound of both the Custom and the JB "thin" but it feels really weak while playing. I have a JB in my Jackson and it sings beautifully and I have a Charvel with Distortions in it and they rock so I know it isn't the pickups. The guitar is alder with a maple top and maple neck and fretboard which all lead to a bright tone, I get that, but I can't even get decent gain out of my 6505+ with this guitar and it is frustrating beyond belief. Suggestions?

[beaubrummels]

Re: Frustration on finding right PUPs

I have not owned this one, but various reviews and owners comments across the web seem to use similar words to yours to describe the sound: thin, bright, slicing cut, metallic, which to me indicates a possibly ice-pick or thin sound. Reviews and comments on the rosewood/EMG version indicate a warmer fuller sound.

However if "thin" to you actually means something else like 'no volume or power', that sounds like something's wrong with the electronics. If you've changed the pickups with no difference, then it's not the pickups.

[audiocheck]

Re: Frustration on finding right PUPs

Hey everybody! I have been playing for over 25 years and have owned over 100 different guitars through my life but I have never had the problem I'm having now. I recently purchased an ESP LTD Elite ST-1 Duncan and love the way it plays. It is truly the best playing guitar that I have ever owned. The problem is that it is the weakest sounding guitar that I have ever owned. It came with a Seymour Duncan Custom in the bridge and it sounded thinner than any single coil guitar that I have played so I decided to swap it out with a JB thinking that it would darken my tone as well as give me a little more output. I was wrong. I am probably being a bit harsh by calling the sound of both the Custom and the JB "thin" but it feels really weak while playing. I have a JB in my Jackson and it sings beautifully and I have a Charvel with Distortions in it and they rock so I know it isn't the pickups. The guitar is alder with a maple top and maple neck and fretboard which all lead to a bright tone, I get that, but I can't even get decent gain out of my 6505+ with this guitar and it is frustrating beyond belief. Suggestions?

First start by replacing all pots and wiring. For a bright guitar go with 300 or 250k pots. You may also want to change your Tone caps to .47. Make sure that all grounds are making proper contact before switching to new pots. This will definitely cause a weak and thin tone. If you can't identify a ground issue then go ahead and replace pots and rewire.

[JoeyAsh]

Re: Frustration on finding right PUPs

However if "thin" to you actually means something else like 'no volume or power', that sounds like something's wrong with the electronics. If you've changed the pickups with no difference, then it's not the pickups.

I guess "thin" to me is relative. Many guys and gals on here might absolutely love the sound I'm getting from this guitar but it is way too Stratty for me, especially coming from a humbucker. I am not a guitar tech by any means and have to bring my guitars in for any major issues so hunting and pecking for problems could get expensive. Assuming all is right with the guitar, which my tech assured me it was, is there a pickup swap that could be beneficial to getting a warmer fuller sound or is it going to be a matter of doing what audiocheck said and going through the complete electronics?

[beaubrummels]

Re: Frustration on finding right PUPs

However if "thin" to you actually means something else like 'no volume or power', that sounds like something's wrong with the electronics. If you've changed the pickups with no difference, then it's not the pickups.

I guess "thin" to me is relative. Many guys and gals on here might absolutely love the sound I'm getting from this guitar but it is way too Stratty for me, especially coming from a humbucker. I am not a guitar tech by any means and have to bring my guitars in for any major issues so hunting and pecking for problems could get expensive. Assuming all is right with the guitar, which my tech assured me it was, is there a pickup swap that could be beneficial to getting a warmer fuller sound or is it going to be a matter of doing what audiocheck said and going through the complete electronics?

Audiocheck gave good advice. Pickups alone cannot solve all the tone issues with a guitar. It sounds like you've done a pickup swap and it didn't satisfy. Obviously you can't change the wood, so the next step is the other electronic components like Audiocheck stated.

If that doesn't get you there, then it may be a combination of new pots, caps and dramatically different pickups to try and get what you want, or who knows, maybe even a different amp.

Can you post a sound sample of what it sounds like, and can you point to a sample/video online of what you want it to sound like? Then maybe someone can propose more specific ideas of how to get you there.

[blueman335]

Re: Frustration on finding right PUPs

On this forum we learn how to dial in our tones in a number of ways. No two pieces of wood are identical, due to variations in grain, density, water content, mineral content, etc. There's wide variation within the same tree. Back in the 1950's Ted McCarty said that the same size piece of mahogany could weigh anywhere from 5 lbs to 25 lbs due to the mineral content. This means wood has a lot of variation in it's tonal and sustain qualities. You can't just drop a PU in a guitar and expect to get a pre-determined sound. Doesn't work like that. Besides, PU makers have no idea what kind of guitar or wood you're putting their product in, what kind of music you're playing, or your amp, speaker, pedals, etc. No PU sounds good in every situation. One size does not fit all. Plus, you can spend a lot of money buying one PU after another.

Here's the typical process many of us go thru:
- Adjust the height of the action, PU's, and pole pieces; makes a big difference, costs nothing.
- Try a brighter or warmer pot(s): 250K, 500K, 1-meg. Pots are cheap.
- For HB's and P-90's try different replacement magnets, there's a lot to choose from, and each has a different EQ and output. Magnets also are cheap.

Doing that, we can add or remove parts of the EQ and tone that we want. It's all simple, do-it-yourself stuff.

[TNTales]

Re: Frustration on finding right PUPs

I would check pickup height first. After that you might want to look into getting another of the Custom series (Custom 5 is a good one) by doing a magnet swap. Otherwise you may just want to roll the tone knob off a bit. I would try playing with the height first like has been suggested.

[Rockstar216]

Re: Frustration on finding right PUPs

Welcome to the forum. I read your post again and wanted to ask how is the guitar set up? Is the action super low? Is the bridge firm against the body? What is the bridge made of?

[Ryan84]

Re: Frustration on finding right PUPs

I think it's the pots to blame for lack of output. It's also a two knobber from looking at the guitar pic online (1 for vol, 1 for tone)

Try just leaving that JB wide open, no tone knob. That will kick up the output. I've had tone knobs cut the balls off an SSL-5's output before. Made a powerful pickup sound wussy.

[uOpt]

Re: Frustration on finding right PUPs

Thingie has a Floyd, right?

Try a different block.

And a PG or DD.

[Oinkus]

Re: Frustration on finding right PUPs

Pole adjustments can make a weak guitar sound great , sounds like you are not the "tech" sort so you really need a good guitar techie that has an open ear.

[blueman335]

Re: Frustration on finding right PUPs

Pole adjustments can make a weak guitar sound great , sounds like you are not the "tech" sort so you really need a good guitar techie that has an open ear.

Most guys here weren't the 'tech type' to begin with either. I have no electrical or handyman skills, and have rewired dozens of guitars (PU's, pots, push-pulls, alternative wirings), swapped magnets and coils in PU's, and done many set ups. If I can learn so can anyone else.

I highly recommend Dan Erlewine's book: 'How to make your electric guitar play great.' Excellent tool for setting up all kinds of guitars, with lots of pictures.

[toneseeker74]

Re: Frustration on finding right PUPs

I second the Erlewine book. It's priceless.

[Brian Griffin]

Re: Frustration on finding right PUPs

Probably the jack is faulty. There is no such a thing as 'frustration' in finding the right pickup. Many options out there, from SD,DM, etc., etc. The 60s are over pal.

[LesStrat]

Re: Frustration on finding right PUPs

"Thin" is not a term I associate with the JB. Something is wrong.

Personally I would change the pots, selector switch and input jack. Get new electronics in it instead of trouble-shooting. Those items are relatively inexpensive and can have a big impact.