Throwback pup covers/pup sound Open pickup cover?

[SJ318]

Hi,
I posted here as this has to do w/pup sound. I read on MyLesPaul a long post about Boutique pups, and it seemed a lot of folks accepted "Throwback" nickel covers as the only ones that did not "hurt" the sound. Yes, there was a strong element of cork-snifferry, but still, it seemed to be an agreed upon thing. Duncans Antiquities came up, but still fell short of the "throwback" covers. At $65-$70 bucks, there must be something to it, as some do pay for this cover only. So any comments? Bullsh*t? Other comparable covers? Also, I've looked for covers that only skirt the edge of the pickup, leaving the slugs and screws exposed, but Schaller is the only one I could find, for a very large price, tried Allparts ,ETC.....add infinitem. I did buy a Duncan 12 hole cover, but no offense to Seymour Duncan, they looked horrible (IMHO). Again, and other resource?
Thank you
Steve

[austin]

Re: Throwback pup covers/pup sound Open pickup cover?

I take the covers off of humbuckers if I happen to get them with covers because they sound better and look better to me. Guess I'm saving myself $65-70 per pickup
-
Austin

[Condemned soul]

Re: Throwback pup covers/pup sound Open pickup cover?

This what you are looking for?
Have these on a SG with 36's from DMZ. These covers are cheaper than the Schaller covers.

http://www.mojotone.com/guitar-parts/pickup-covers-humbucker/Open-Humbucker-Pickup-Cover-Nickel#.U-LdSv10z3g

[Rockstar216]

Re: Throwback pup covers/pup sound Open pickup cover?

Any metal around a pup will effect the sound to some degree. Did any scientific data come up in the discussion to prove how much each cover effected the sound?

[SJ318]

Re: Throwback pup covers/pup sound Open pickup cover?

Hey,condemned soul, thanks, good tip!! I will look 'em up on thursday, thanks.
Rockdtar126, no scientific info came up, just strong audio opinions. Also, I would rather have a little, as opposed to a lot of metal around my humbuckers.
I like the look of a clean line around a pickup and I also like them open on the bridge, as I like to turn the bridge slugs close to the bridge itself, (I do radius the slugs and raise the treble slugs higher), a little thicker treble sound (hard to put in words) and then lower or raise screws to enhance mids or treble, depending on the high or low strings, I can hear it, and I like it.
Thanks,
Steve

[SJ318]

Re: Throwback pup covers/pup sound Open pickup cover?

To Condemned soul-
I just got a good look at the Mojo covers and they look really great, AND cheap. I will order 4-5 for my bridge HBuckers. A very big thanks again. I always leave my covers on the neck HBuckers as I like the high end sound of the Jazz models as is. All I need to do now is get some ferric chloride, or ferris chloride (sp?) to antique my nickel Duncan & Mojo covers and I will be set, for a while anyway.
Steve Buffington Ps: Electric City Pickups are much loved over at at MLP forum. They look like they are well made, I guess by the time I hit my next birthday, there will have to be a separate phone book just for pickup makers!!

[AlexR]

Re: Throwback pup covers/pup sound Open pickup cover?

Throbak has a good reputation for producing not only accurate PAF shaped covers, but aurally more transparent ones. This is not from personal experience but recommendations from winders I know and who's opinion I trust (Zhangbucker for one).

The gist of that thread was that you use less layers of material to get the nickel plating to stick. Copper was one of the methods used in cheap covers, which tends to affect the sound. Better quality covers use different processes that allow for the top nickel to adhere without the copper.

[Zhangliqun]

Re: Throwback pup covers/pup sound Open pickup cover?

I will verify from firsthand experience. As Alex alludes, I do endorse the Throbak covers. They really do leave your pickup sonically naked. At least the nickel one I tried for a customer sure did. According to the Throbak site, in a nutshell, his covers are thinner with no copper used at all:

http://www.throbak.com/paf-pickup-covers.html

Having tried to buff some unplated covers to a mirror/scratch-free finish and talked to others about it, it is extremely difficult. The copper plating is used to fill in the scratches and pores in the raw cover in its pre-plate state and make it much easier to get the mirror finish and thus make them affordable. Likely Throbak or his vendor is going to the trouble of using expensive gear and abrasives to get a mirror finish on the unplated cover and then putting the nickel on it, sans copper.

That (and secondarily the fact that he's still a small guy who can't get bulk deals like a Duncan or Dimarzio) would explain why his covers are so expensive. But if you have to have the covered look but can't stand the tone effect of covers, these are well worth the money in my opinion, yes, even at $64.50 per cover.

Second best to me is the RS Guitarworks aged covers because there is no plating and thus no copper layer. If I am correct in my theory, these are unplated covers that RS polishes to the extent they can and then ages them, which will allow you to get away with a less than mirror finish. The patina covers a multitude of sins. But I have not verified the RS process. I can say that the tonal effect of the RS covers is there but minimal, far less than any other covers I've tried (other than Throbak of course) and sometimes it can be a plus, sweetening the tone of bridge pickups.

Throbak first and RS second are the only covers I can confidently recommend to my customers.

[SJ318]

Re: Throwback pup covers/pup sound Open pickup cover?

So, Zhangliqun,
Should I then think that Duncan covers do use some brass therefore an open cover would be best for all the sound and frequency of the great Duncan pickups to come forth and bloom to their fullest? No disrespect intended to S.Duncan at all. By the way, I ordered 5 Mojo nickel open covers for my 5 HBucker bridge guitars. Can't wait.
Also, for my neck Duncan Jazz pups, which full covers come aged for a good price, on the neck pickups, just having the screws exposed is fine with these great neck pups. Ferris chloride sounds like a hassle, which I am willing to do, but at the right price, I might be able to afford some of those and avoid a mess. I live in a condo, not much space.
SJB

[LtKojak]

Re: Throwback pup covers/pup sound Open pickup cover?

This effect is produced by the Eddy currents generated by the "Faraday cage" effect of a closed cover, which was included in the originale PAF recipe as shielding, something that often gets overlooked.

By using the H-shaped cover used by TVJones and the like, even those made of brass (God forbid) are "tonally transparent".

If not used more often, it's mainly due to its looks. An excellent example of form following function delivering the desired effect snobbed solely by just not "looking the part".

It's been my experience that event the self-proclaimed "Tone savvy" players will always go for the prittiest rather than the "best sounding" instrument, given a choice.

It must be human nature, I suppose... *sigh*

[AlexR]

Re: Throwback pup covers/pup sound Open pickup cover?

A lot of time the 'pure unadulterated sound' is precisely the opposite of what you should aim for. Ever tried recording a guitar DI with no processing......YUK!

The amp, cables, speakers etc are all colouring the tone to give the final outcome.........as are any covers you might have on. Who knows, having a really bad cover might just be the thing your guitars need....

[Demanic]

Re: Throwback pup covers/pup sound Open pickup cover?

This effect is produced by the Eddy currents generated by the "Faraday cage" effect of a closed cover, which was included in the originale PAF recipe as shielding, something that often gets overlooked.

By using the H-shaped cover used by TVJones and the like, even those made of brass (God forbid) are "tonally transparent".

If not used more often, it's mainly due to its looks. An excellent example of form following function delivering the desired effect snobbed solely by just not "looking the part".

It's been my experience that event the self-proclaimed "Tone savvy" players will always go for the prittiest rather than the "best sounding" instrument, given a choice.

It must be human nature, I suppose... *sigh*

I must be the exception that proves the rule. I would rather have an "ugly" guitar that sounds great than a "pretty" guitar that sounds meh.

[SJ318]

Re: Throwback pup covers/pup sound Open pickup cover?

Kudo's to-
Lt. Kojak for actually using the very cool scientific term "Faraday cage" in a guitar forum. Yeah, I would rather get the sound I like than be cool, and my desire for antique looking covers (neck only) is that while it may look cool, I just plain like the look, even if someone does it JUST to be cool.
The Faraday cage idea is, or seems, like proof that there really is a difference in sound w/without covers. I was going to try Filtertron covers for that very same transparency Pepe was talking about but after measuring, knew they would not fit.
So I have Mojo nickel open covers on the way for my bridge models. To me, that is cool both tonally and visually.
Steve B.

[Zhangliqun]

Re: Throwback pup covers/pup sound Open pickup cover?

I don't want that kind of "pure, unadulterated sound". I just want covers that don't jack up the existing tone.

Don't forget the thickness of the cover matters too. Those Fender Wide Range covers could stop an anti-tank round which protects the pickup very nicely but unfortunately they also protect the amp from killer tone. The Throbaks are supposed to be a bit thinner than standard humbucker covers, they do feel lighter in my hand. I think I measured the thickness with my micrometer and they did read a little thinner than the other covers I had laying around. Don't remember the numbers.