Vivian Campbell's Dio tone from 1984 - which pickups

[LLL]

Re: Vivian Campbell's Dio tone from 1984 - which pickups

Matter of interest (and only if you have the time and/or inclination) listen to this:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HWdLSiaSegQ

Would you agree with me it's ALMOST the same tone but a bit more "woody, midrangey, gnarly" (different from the studio tone)???

OK: not sure how much "color" the live recording is making though.

But try get that tone (for the sake of interest)???

But thanks A LOT.

Regards,

Dale.

Listened... yes, almost the same except more mid-rangey and the treble is rounded off some.

[LLL]

Re: Vivian Campbell's Dio tone from 1984 - which pickups

Live I would do what some have mentioned mostly already:

guitar with hot humbucker
|
BOSS DS-1 (crank the output, lil bit distortion)
|
Marshall JCM800 (most likely Master Volume)
|
4x12 cab with Celestion G12-65s (typical 80's Marshall cab)

...play with gusto. Seems Viv back then really hit the strings hard.

[dpaterson]

Re: Vivian Campbell's Dio tone from 1984 - which pickups

Now we're talking business here!!!

Thanks for all the info.

I'll just pop out and buy some JCM800 heads and cabs. then shall I??? LOL??? (FORTUNATELY I already have the SD-1!!! LOL!!!).

At this point: I'd be very happy with your DAW version to be quite frank (put it through my PA).

How much of a difference does this "UA 2-610 (tube mic/line-in preamp)" make. What does it actually do??? And could this be the reason why generally I get such thin sound when I plug straight into my audio interface (Scarlett 18i8)???

Got BIAS AMP 2 but NO problem getting BIAS FX if that's what's needed.

IRs and EQ and Reverb no problem (got tons of this sh*t).

YOU ARE THE MAN and thanks very much!!!

Regards,

Dale.

P.S.

No problem about hitting the strings hard. I go through picks like it's not funny. Actually cheeses me off. They're not cheap these thick Dunlop things. But the points wear off in like a day (like maybe after an hour or two). And trying to sharpen them using that old carpet trick doesn't work as it changes the shape and size of the pick. So if anybody knows of picks that LAST then lemme know. Been contemplating whether or not those Titanium picks are worth the cost and effort (logic tells me they should stay sharp and last but apparently there is always an oily film associated with them).

[dpaterson]

Re: Vivian Campbell's Dio tone from 1984 - which pickups

Geez.

You ain't playing around are you???

I just looked up that UA 2-610 thingy. Not sure what it does or what difference it makes but it costs almost as much as a JCM800 head!!!

Based on the cost it sure must be doing something wonderful!!!

Regards,

Dale.

[Jack_TriPpEr]

Re: Vivian Campbell's Dio tone from 1984 - which pickups

Live I would do what some have mentioned mostly already:

guitar with hot humbucker
|
BOSS DS-1 (crank the output, lil bit distortion)
|
Marshall JCM800 (most likely Master Volume)
|
4x12 cab with Celestion G12-65s (typical 80's Marshall cab)

...play with gusto. Seems Viv back then really hit the strings hard.

+1 to using a speaker/cabinet combination similar to what Vivian would have used in the live Dio concert that Dale is referencing. They say "speakers make up 50% of your tone." Yeah, not just which model of speaker, but how many - 2 or 4 etc - and closed or open back speaker cabinet design - and the quality of the cabinet wood and vlbuild. I experienced the difference that a change in speakers and cabinet made when i was on my own tone hunt a few years ago.

In your other thread, i also commented/went into some detail on how also, based on my experience, the type of wood the guitar is made from, is a big factor.

Finally as well, again based on my experience using digital modeling amps including even the recent Helix modeling amp - unless you are using a premier level modeler like an AxeFX - the tone sounds compomised - particularly the mids. Doesnt mean you have to buy a JCM 800 or even a tube amp. But, go analog vs digital unless you're getting the best modeler out there like an AxeFX.

[Gtrjunior]

Re: Vivian Campbell's Dio tone from 1984 - which pickups

Here's a quick attempt:

Now THATS how it’s done....

[devastone]

Re: Vivian Campbell's Dio tone from 1984 - which pickups

(FORTUNATELY I already have the SD-1!!! LOL!!!).

LLL said DS-1, not SD-1, they are quite different.

[dpaterson]

Re: Vivian Campbell's Dio tone from 1984 - which pickups

Yip.

That is MOST CERTAINLY how it's done (he's even got the pinch harmonics down perfect)!!! As I said. AMAZING.

Thank's for pointing that out @devastone i.e. I keep forgetting that (only because I read somewhere that Vivian used an SD-1 but a) who knows and b) who cares if that's the tone that prompted this thread).

+1 to using a speaker/cabinet combination similar to what Vivian would have used in the live Dio concert that Dale is referencing. They say "speakers make up 50% of your tone." Yeah, not just which model of speaker, but how many - 2 or 4 etc - and closed or open back speaker cabinet design - and the quality of the cabinet wood and vlbuild. I experienced the difference that a change in speakers and cabinet made when i was on my own tone hunt a few years ago.

In your other thread, i also commented/went into some detail on how also, based on my experience, the type of wood the guitar is made from, is a big factor.

Finally as well, again based on my experience using digital modeling amps including even the recent Helix modeling amp - unless you are using a premier level modeler like an AxeFX - the tone sounds compomised - particularly the mids. Doesnt mean you have to buy a JCM 800 or even a tube amp. But, go analog vs digital unless you're getting the best modeler out there like an AxeFX.

Thank you and excellent input and advice.

As I said earlier today: now we're getting down to business here!!!

Admittedly I bought my first Marshall CODE simply because it was a Marshall. I also had no experience with modelling amps. whatsoever (no experience with amp. sim. software either at that time) so I figured well this is obviously where things are going nowadays (and so on an so forth). Also and sadly back then (this almost two years ago now) I had promised myself that THIS time around I was going to buy ONE guitar and ONE amp. and only once I'd gotten every single song and solo under my belt would I only THEN start looking at the rest. At no point was it even on the cards to record stuff or anything like that. But, unfortunately, things took a wrong turn what with all these new "toys" (although, as per my LONG post of earlier today, I use the words "unfortunately" and "wrong" reservedly however).

VERY good info. and advice @kinswebe. Thank you. All makes a LOT of sense. And you've "hit the nail on the head" insofar as "compromised tone" is concerned. Very very good description. I'm not going to run out RIGHT NOW and dump all my CODE amps. This I have to be honest about. I'm prepared to spend a few more $$$ on testing and replacing speakers to see what happens. Marshall is also due to release a firmware update for these amps. soon and MAYBE that improves matters (dunno if you all know but for the sake of interest: the modelling software is from Softube who SEEM to have a decent reputation) (Craig Goldie punts them enough anyway). But. Who knows. Will see. Not long to wait now I don't think. And may never get that tone from them. But it makes sense and would be prudent to wait for a month or so and in the meantime change a speaker or two at the beginning of next year. But whatever happens: we have ALL the detail required to get a REALLY REALLY good Vivian Campbell tone in the future if this Marshall CODE thing doesn't work out. And for now: if I am just able to get (even close) to LLL's tone on that audio using BIAS FX (and whatever else) then so be it. It sure will tide me over until "the big time".

Anyway. And thanks to EVERYONE on these threads: a LOT of things have come up and been addressed and resolved (WAY more than simply trying to get Vivian's tone). And for this I thank everyone.

On the topic of the thread: at this point in time I'm afraid my mind is still not quite made up as to just how much of a difference the pickups make. If forced to make a statement on this right now: at THIS time I'd have to say "not much". However: it could very well be that there is HUGE difference in tone between the different pickups BUT given my current equipment (in particular my Marshall CODE amps.) I'm just not able to HEAR the difference i.e. it could very well be that they're just "filtering" or "flattening" whatever sound is being fed to them.

But again: thanks everyone. Really very much thank you. A LOT of good stuff on these threads.

Regards,

Dale.

P.S.

And to all the "naysayers" here it is again!!! LOL!!!

[dpaterson]

Re: Vivian Campbell's Dio tone from 1984 - which pickups

Jeepers!!! Lightbulb moment!!!


Here's a possible TEMPORARY solution:


Guitar (DM SD or SD Invader) (you all know the story well by now)
|
Audio Interface
|
VSTs (BIAS FX and/or whatever else is needed) (thanks again LLL)
|
Stereo Out from Audio Interface to L + R Marshall CODE50 L + R (amps. on CLEAN settings i.e. all FX bypassed) (either by instrument in with reamper to convert line level to instrument level OR by line in on the amps.)


OR


Guitar (DM SD or SD Invader) (you all know the story well by now)
|
Audio Interface
|
VSTs (BIAS FX and/or whatever else is needed) (thanks again LLL)
|
Stereo Out to Mixer to PA


Potential pitfalls:

Latency (although I can get down to 1ms and even slightly less without glitches depending of course on CPU load at the time).

Unwanted coloring of the tone by the amps. (although because no effects are in use no problem with VST EQ and noise levels should be fine too as no amp. gain or distortion being used). On the other hand: the amps. and cabs. may give the VST tone a bit of an "amp. tone".


By no means elegant. And would not trust the reliability of this config. for live. But hell: maybe I can really get some Dio/Campbell stuff down and at very least record it for posterity. Sure would make me feel very good about life in general I can tell ya!!! LOL!!!


Regards,

Dale.

[51501984]

Re: Vivian Campbell's Dio tone from 1984 - which pickups

This thread is hitting the status of EVH tone threads back in 2011 & 2012 LOL . OP I couldn't read thru all your posts and I don't know if your in a position to buy new gear but have you ever thought about sticking a JB in one of your guitars , getting a hot rodded Marshall type amp , TS style boost pedal , maybe a 2x12 with greenbacks. Thats pretty much the gear I've got and when I'm jamming on Dio/Viv tunes its more than satisfying , I can't solo like Viv though. It might not be practical to go out and spend a good chunk of change on all that but just thought I`d throw it out there. Good luck

[Gtrjunior]

Re: Vivian Campbell's Dio tone from 1984 - which pickups

This thread is hitting the status of EVH tone threads back in 2011 & 2012 LOL . OP I couldn't read thru all your posts and I don't know if your in a position to buy new gear but have you ever thought about sticking a JB in one of your guitars , getting a hot rodded Marshall type amp , TS style boost pedal , maybe a 2x12 with greenbacks. Thats pretty much the gear I've got and when I'm jamming on Dio/Viv tunes its more than satisfying , I can't solo like Viv though. It might not be practical to go out and spend a good chunk of change on all that but just thought I`d throw it out there. Good luck

We have already been down that road...and for the record I 100% agree with you....but my opinion isn’t what matters, apparently.
Another forum member bashed me for my insistence on putting a JB in the bridge. So there’s that.

[51501984]

Re: Vivian Campbell's Dio tone from 1984 - which pickups

We have already been down that road...and for the record I 100% agree with you....but my opinion isn’t what matters, apparently.
Another forum member bashed me for my insistence on putting a JB in the bridge. So there’s that.

I'm pretty sure you've got a Splawn Quick Rod ? I've got a Splawn SS EL34 and 2 Splawn cabs , love the Splawn and pretty affordable for the quality and tone you get from them

[dpaterson]

Re: Vivian Campbell's Dio tone from 1984 - which pickups

Hello.

This thread is hitting the status of EVH tone threads back in 2011 & 2012 LOL . OP I couldn't read thru all your posts and I don't know if your in a position to buy new gear but have you ever thought about sticking a JB in one of your guitars , getting a hot rodded Marshall type amp , TS style boost pedal , maybe a 2x12 with greenbacks. Thats pretty much the gear I've got and when I'm jamming on Dio/Viv tunes its more than satisfying , I can't solo like Viv though. It might not be practical to go out and spend a good chunk of change on all that but just thought I`d throw it out there. Good luck

WHAT??? You've not read the thread??? You're kidding right??? LOL!!! A fair chunk of my life is embedded in this thread I'll have you know!!! LOL!!! (And I ain't getting any younger so every minute counts).

Only joking. I realise some people have lives and more important things to do. Like practice and jam and gig. You know: "normal" like!!! LOL!!!

I'm not even sure I could begin to summarise this thread. But suffice to say: yeh I think it's all been covered (ad nauseam).

And while a few may not agree: I reckon there is some decent sh*t on this thread (not limited to the topic by any means).

So when are we gonna get some Dio/Campbell samples??? I'm running a competition now (seems fitting after all this does it not) i.e. let's see who comes closest to Vivian's 1983/1984 Dio tone with their CURRENT gear. Chops don't count (only because I'm not there yet myself!!! LOL!!!). And the prize is.........

We have already been down that road...and for the record I 100% agree with you....but my opinion isn’t what matters, apparently.
Another forum member bashed me for my insistence on putting a JB in the bridge. So there’s that.

Your opinion matters greatly. And I cannot thank you enough for your input (and for humoring me on occasion).

Regards,

Dale.

[Gtrjunior]

Re: Vivian Campbell's Dio tone from 1984 - which pickups

I'm pretty sure you've got a Splawn Quick Rod ? I've got a Splawn SS EL34 and 2 Splawn cabs , love the Splawn and pretty affordable for the quality and tone you get from them

Yes I do! Good memory!!
I LOVE it.
I just bought a Friedman buxom boost for it. It’s the single best addition to my signal chain yet. It’s an amazing pedal. I’d highly recommend it.

[freefrog]

Re: Vivian Campbell's Dio tone from 1984 - which pickups

A bit OT but this article says something about Vivian Campbell and wireless systems:

https://www.vintageguitar.com/10865/thin-lizzys-scott-gorham-and-vivian-campbell/

FWIW (the usual 2 cents). :-)