Vivian Campbell's Dio tone from 1984 - which pickups

[devastone]

Re: Vivian Campbell's Dio tone from 1984 - which pickups

I hear ya, been through lots of guitars and amps, some that I can never get back, at least not at the prices I got them for.

[LLL]

Re: Vivian Campbell's Dio tone from 1984 - which pickups

Isolated guitar track for Campbell era Dio. The engineer EQ'd the daylights out of it. Studio trickery. You'll never get an amp to get this sound.

I may be wrong, but that guitar signal sounds very hot coming into the board there... a good amount of hi-mid "hash".

It's possible the (assumed pushed) mic pre may be adding a little flavor too.

[beaubrummels]

Re: Vivian Campbell's Dio tone from 1984 - which pickups

God I remember when I would come on here and a few other forums when I was in high school and I would post incessantly (not unlike our friend OP has been doing) I would get *so annoyed* by everybody telling me that if I just learned how to play clean and fast and I plugged something mahogany to something a British sounding high gain amp that my tone would be 100% better if I focused less on the gear Slash played with and more on how many hundreds and hundreds of hours that he practiced.

I hated this advice. This was not the advice I wanted, surely there was some secret pickup or overdrive pedal or amplifier of string gauge or down tuning or SOMETHING that I could buy that would get be that sweet, sweet AFD lead tone.

But as I type this 10 years later and I see so many similarities in OP and my former self I wish I had listened to that advice the first time around because it would have saved me a ****load of time and money.

“Education is the progressive discovery of ignorance.”

- Will Durant

[dpaterson]

Re: Vivian Campbell's Dio tone from 1984 - which pickups

Hi.

Let's dispense with the friendliness and candor here because evidently it's creating a number of false impressions. And the only reason I post here now is purely for the sake of completeness and for those who are maybe keen on the outcome of the thread topic. The condescending posts are not necessary. I've been around a LONG time and have had a LOT of gear ("proper" gear) over the years. Just because I cannot play blistering fast Vivian Campbell solos doesn't mean I don't know the different between good, bad, and downright cr*p tone. And I don't understand why it's an issue in that I'm trying to duplicate the said tone. It's the tone that I want simply because I want it at this time and for a specific purpose. Also: my fault that I happened to joke about being OCD on this and let it slide thereafter. Let's not confuse OCD with not being satisfied with mediocrity. And at this juncture: playing style or skill has NOTHING to do with the issue at hand. There's nothing special about the first few barre chords to "Rainbow In The Dark" (as but one example) I assure you. And this is not a quest to find some "magic bullet" that's going to set me on the path to stardom (I should never have joked about this). It's a specific quest to get a specific tone out of the gear I currently have (and if that's not possible then so be it i.e. I'll ditch the lot and start over but I wasn't prepared to do that until I'd at least tried and hence this thread). And lastly: I started this thread thinking that MAYBE the pickups would help me to get this particular tone that I'm looking for at this particular time from FROM THE INSTRUMENT knowing full well it's a process of elimination. Well (as below) I've now eliminated pickups from the equation.

Oh and please before I go any further: could somebody please give me the correct term to use for a tone with lots of bass and lots of treble but no mids. Apparently my definition of "scooped" is incorrect.

I installed the DM SD yesterday afternoon. No great shake when compared to the stock Jackson pickup taken out. As I've noted previously: the stock Jackson pickup in this guitar was an incredibly hot pickup to begin with for some reason (to the point where I actually thought it may even have had some or the other issue or be of poor quality) and nothing like the stock pickup in my other Jackson. The DM SD is SLIGHTLY more articulate (and I do mean SLIGHTLY to the point where it could possibly even be the placebo effect to be honest) but that's about it. Certainly no difference in mid. tones. If anything it's more "shrill" in this guitar. As per a suggestion on another thread: am going to rewire in parallel to see what happens but I'm not holding my breath as this apparently accentuates highs notwithstanding that it may make the sound clearer. Based on this I'd be really surprised if even an SD Invader is going to make any difference (but it'll be worth testing when it arrives for the sake if it anyway).

And based on all of the above I'd have to surmise that it's guitar type (wood) and/or (unfortunately) shortcomings in the guitar amps. And like I said above: if this is the case well then so be it i.e. I'll ditch the whole lot and start over. If that necessitates buying two JCM800 heads (this time of the Master Volume variety that is i.e. nowadays I'll get jailed if I repeat my previous valve antics from yesteryear) and cabs. well then fine. I just really assumed that different pickups would make a big difference based on the Tone Profiles but evidently I was wrong. No problem at all saying "I stand corrected and I was wrong and thanks for the input". But at least I now KNOW just how much, or how little, different pickups make. Would this Jackson kick a JCM800 into overdrive with absolutely no effort??? 1 000% sure that it would. Is it "too much" for these CODE amps.??? Yes. Am I going to get this tone with my current setup??? Probably not. Have I been trying to get "Rolls Royce" sound out of "Toyota Prius" gear??? So it would seem. But I could not have said that with any conviction eight pages (of thread) ago. I guess the bottom line is (to anybody following this thread because they're interested in the actual topic): changing pickups, unless you have genuinely horrid pickups, is not going to drastically alter your tone. There's a whole lot of things that come into play and based on my personal experience here: pickups are a very small part (unless, as I said, you have absolutely atrocious pickups of course). That's my take on the topic as of today. Agree. Disagree. Whatever. Your experience is, and will be, different from mine.

By the way @devastone (thanks for the post by the way): the Marshall CODE amps. have guitar cab. speakers in them and not FRFR speakers (this confirmed by Marshall themselves in a direct response to myself at the beginning of this week). Apparently they were voiced specifically for the CODE range but they are definitely guitar cab. speakers. They say they were specifically voiced for the CODE range an not based on a particular model of Celestion (or anything else for that matter).

I suppose one last test I can do to prove or disprove some theories is to input all the settings from the chap with the white Charvel (posted somewhere earlier on the thread) into JamVOX (the guy was kind enough to email me his exact settings used for that video) and try that with this guitar and the DM SD (which is what is in that guitar) (and by the way and case in point: he most certainly doesn't have the chops, style, or technique but his GUITAR TONE is DAMN close to the studio versions i.e. he's playing chords for goodness sake) (but closest I've found to date and that with a $99 piece of software). Unfortunately this defeats the (my) object of getting this tone live though. But as I said: may prove a point. (To save those actually interested some precious time I've included the link below i.e. it's DAMN close).

Oh and some may find this info. useful in the future: the stock Jackson pickups are made by an outfit called "Belcat". Apparently a Chinese company making budget pickups. I don't know if I just got lucky with my two Jacksons but I can tell you this: there ain't a $80 - $90 difference between the Belcat pickups and these name brand jobs that's for sure. Same way there ain't a $4 500 difference between my Jacksons and my hand made jobby either. You live and learn (and pay) I guess.

Regards,

Dale.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Z-bjw7ZiNO0

[Mincer]

Re: Vivian Campbell's Dio tone from 1984 - which pickups

'Scooped' to me, is exactly how you describe it.

[LLL]

Re: Vivian Campbell's Dio tone from 1984 - which pickups

And I don't understand why it's an issue in that I'm trying to duplicate the said tone.

It's not.

Ignore the haters - they pull this **** all the time when someone tries to duplicate tones... like they know anything about tone.

[devastone]

Re: Vivian Campbell's Dio tone from 1984 - which pickups

I wasn't trying to be patronizing or anything in my posts, and at this point, I have nothing else to offer you on your search except good luck.

Thanks for the info on the CODE speakers, maybe new speakers would help, maybe not, I can't really say.

[Dave Locher]

Re: Vivian Campbell's Dio tone from 1984 - which pickups

I hope I am not one of the people who seemed condescending. If so, I apologize. I mentioned OCD based on the overall tenor of your posts, not because of any joke you made. And as I said the first time, if you ENJOY the tone pursuit then by all means keep going! You hinted once or twice that it was making you miserable and maybe I misinterpreted a joke. If so, sorry.
I think of myself as a pretty low-key guy when it comes to tone but I went through at least five pickups in my most recent guitar, at least a dozen (maybe closer to two dozen?) boost and OD pedals, and four different speaker types in my cab over the past couple years. Once I started messing with the setup it was like opening Pandora's box and that was just me trying to slightly refine my own long-established (and pretty generic) tone. I can't even imagine the twisted path it would take to capture a sound you have heard someone else produce. But I wish you luck and truly hope you hit on the sound that makes you happy.

[dpaterson]

Re: Vivian Campbell's Dio tone from 1984 - which pickups

Hello.

Thanks all for the posts.

@devastone

My post above of yesterday was not directed at you in any way, shape, or form I assure you.

Aside from the content of this thread: changing the speakers would definitely make a big difference as it's ironic that many CODE users also refer to this "scooped" tone they're getting BUT from their amps. (treble and bass constantly "fighting" with each other). In that video there's a HUGE difference in just changing the speakers ESPECIALLY when it comes to mids. and clarity. So maybe it's worth it. Dunno. As I said in my post above: if I don't get closer to what I'm looking for then I'll ditch the lot and start over. Easier said than done though. ONE head is around $2 500 USD (depending on where you look on the Internet). In ZAR: that ain't small change (and that's before import duties and freight). So two heads and two cabs.??? That's a LOT of mods. to a CODE50 or CODE100/CODE100H that can be done I can tell you!!! LOL!!! And then of course there's the practicalities. Got myself into a lot of trouble the last time I had one and it wouldn't be any better now that is FOR sure. And realistically speaking: given my choice of music, the level that I'm CURRENTLY playing at, and possible venues that may accommodate, not to mention that if anything I'd probably be a solo act: TOTAL overkill and a big waste. MAYBE I'll look at some of those smaller Marshall combos. like those DSLs. But man: it makes me nervous when I see all the complaints about them. There are some dudes that have returned no less than FOUR of them just to get ONE that works without any problems (most are lucky by about the SECOND amp.). Anyway: the cost of experimenting with these CODE amps. in negligible in context so probably worth the time an effort. Must say though: I've never had any problems with them myself and actually no complaints REALLY. I actually really like them. Could they be improved upon (speaker change)??? Sure. Anyway. Will see. Right now (as you well know) I have a "problem child" (black Jackson) to sort out!!! LOL!!!

@Dave Locher

Nope. I actually sent you a PM THANKING you for your post!!! LOL!!! Check your Inbox.

I never got around to answering you though (as promised in the PM) so here goes:

I do enjoy it. Does it frustrate the "living sh*t" out of me. Hell yeh. But this is just one aspect really. I go off at these tangents often: sampling rates and bit depths being my last "rabbit hole trip" that lasted about two months and video that lasted YEARS!!! LOL!!! But you know what: I berate myself because musically it's not helping me accomplish what I set out to do again. But ultimately: it's ALL knowledge. And there's nothing wrong with that I don't think. I know for sure I can "hold my own" now in a conversation when it comes to sampling rates and bit depths. That is FOR sure. I know I can RECORD in (not manipulate to) Dolby Surround and produce broadcast quality video too given the YEARS I spent in THAT "rabbit hole". Compositing, 3D animation??? Have I ever had the NEED to record in Dolby Surround??? No. (I did manage to get about 30 seconds of video broadcast once though!!! LOL!!! Highlight of my life at the time!!! LOL!!!). At the end of the day: I wouldn't change it for the world to be honest. This stuff has always fascinated me (sound, light, video). And who knows: maybe it turns into something. You know: maybe at the end of the day I'll have to accept that I'm better at sound and recording (and whatever else) than I am ever going to be as a musician. It'd be a hard pill to swallow of course and very disappointing but hey: at some point a person has to "get real" I guess. One thing I do know though: being a LITTLE OCD (gotta watch myself here) is maybe not a bad thing. I've been to places and watched good bands go belly up because whoever was doing the sound was either pis*ed, tone deaf, or both. Maybe if they were a LITTLE OCD: might have sounded better!!! I've seen promo. videos made by bands here that are shocking insofar as their audio is concerned. I'm no professional but because of these "rabbit holes": I know I can do a way better job and that's only because I'm meticulous (and if that's OCD well then that's me).

But I hear ya. Your mod. history is sounding just like mine now!!! LOL!!! And after ALL this (as things stand now): I had a pretty alright tone about eleven months ago i.e. better (I think) than what I have now AFTER a bunch of pedals, pickups, and the rest. Only struck me when I posted a link to my one and only own video on YouTube. But then again: who knows. In eleven month's time I may be saying exactly the same thing about my tone TODAY!!! LOL!!! So as I said: I hear ya i.e. "Pandora's Box" for sure!!! And I guess this time around I'm taking things a lot more seriously than I did before (I deeply regret not having this mindset 29 years ago and also 18 or so years ago). At least I'm now LEARNING things (as opposed to having as much to drink as possible and thinking that everything sounded JUST great). And if that never gets me on stage: well so be it. Either way: none of it is waste (not to me anyway).

Thanks again (to you all) for the posts.

BY THE WAY:

Dunno if this means anything but this particular thread has a LOT of views i.e. right up there with the "top ten" I'd have to say. Evidently, in spite of there not being that many different members posting here, I'm/we're not the only people interested in the topic. So yeh: in spite of one or two unhappy with the content and direction of the thread maybe it helps somebody else i.e. a lot of different issues have been raised here that are unrelated to the Vivian's tone and, maybe, such info. will help others in the future which, believe it or not, is but one reason I DO post on forums i.e. to try help and NOT to try to prove I "know it all and been there done that". I know from experience that there are a LOT of people out there who are "afraid to ask"!!!

Regards,

Dale.

[LLL]

Re: Vivian Campbell's Dio tone from 1984 - which pickups

Here's a quick attempt:

[dpaterson]

Re: Vivian Campbell's Dio tone from 1984 - which pickups

Here's a quick attempt:

That is AMAZING!!! Put an involuntary smile on my face on the first note!!! You sure that's you??? LOL!!!

So pray tell: what was that done with (guitar, pickups, amp. or whatever, you know the drill)???

NICE. THANKS.

Regards,

Dale.

[dpaterson]

Re: Vivian Campbell's Dio tone from 1984 - which pickups

Listened again. Ten times at least.

AMAZING.

Just gimme the shopping list and we'll call it quits!!! LOL!!!

Just gimme the shopping list and we can all go home!!! LOL!!!

Regards,

Dale.

[dpaterson]

Re: Vivian Campbell's Dio tone from 1984 - which pickups

Matter of interest (and only if you have the time and/or inclination) listen to this:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HWdLSiaSegQ

Would you agree with me it's ALMOST the same tone but a bit more "woody, midrangey, gnarly" (different from the studio tone)???

OK: not sure how much "color" the live recording is making though.

But try get that tone (for the sake of interest)???

But thanks A LOT.

Regards,

Dale.

[LLL]

Re: Vivian Campbell's Dio tone from 1984 - which pickups

Might be surprised...

Aside from the preamp, it's 100% DAW VST software.

Chain:

Carvin DC150 (SH-5 Custom)
|
UA 2-610 (tube mic/line-in preamp)
|
EMU 1820m (audio interface)
|
BIAS FX VST (BOSS DS-1 -> JCM800 model)
|
SIR2 VST (Celestion G12-65 speaker iR)
|
Waves EQ Classic (32 band EQ... tweaked by ear)
|
touch of EMT140 plate verb

Double tracked (naturally) - panned wide L & R.

Played with mucho gusto - hit the strings hard; do everything like you mean it

I really think the BOSS DS-1 is a major key. Set output cranked, tone in the middle and just a bit of distortion (I had a bit too much).
I believe this is what gives the tone that upper mid "hash"... and certainly helps a ton with pinch harmonics.

This was a rough sketch; could use tweaking (and more practice).

[dpaterson]

Re: Vivian Campbell's Dio tone from 1984 - which pickups

Sorry.

Forgot to ask:

What is the barometric pressure there by you and what did you have for breakfast???

Regards,

Dale.