Disappearing notes, fuzz and ceramic vs alnico 2 magnets...

[conorsearl]

I'm helping a friend out...

He plays les pauls, predominantly the neck pickup, super low tuned, uses a wound 3rd and plays with a lot of fuzz.

His original guitar is a '94 Les Paul with an SH-5 in the neck. He just bought a '76 Deluxe and put a Custom Custom in the neck thinking it should respond the same way.

One of his songs has a riff that involves an octave or a 5th involving the 3rd string. The higher note on the 3rd string just sings on his original guitar, but with this '76 and the custom custom pickup, that higher note disappears. Its as if the frequency is cancelled. I should say as well the pole spacing on the '76 is way out, the e high lands just inside the 1st pole, and initially he thought his problem maybe had to do with that. But when each string is played individually with a clean setting each string is there.

Looking at those two pickups one uses a ceramic magnet, and the other has an alnico 2, both have the same resistance, but the EQ curve is drastically different. We're gonna try swapping those two pickups around, but is it safe to think that our problem likely lies with the different magnets? And for this application the ceramic magnet being the more desirable option?

[Dave Locher]

Re: Disappearing notes, fuzz and ceramic vs alnico 2 magnets...

The only difference between those two pickups is the magnet. If you put a ceramic mag into a Custom Custom it literally IS a Custom.

[AlexR]

Re: Disappearing notes, fuzz and ceramic vs alnico 2 magnets...

Each guitar will have its own identity.....as you have found.

Some might have a better low end response, some might me more 'combed', meaning you get a slightly more vintage tone, some quite sharp - giving you great top-end bite.

Certainly an A2 magnet Custom family pickup will make for much less bright treble content, and increased low mids, so the natural tendency would be to do just what you have found, which is to make the higher note be subsumed by the wound string note.
But any of the Custom family in the neck is going to border on a muddy/undefined mess if not carefully controlled. Hell, even vintage strength pickups which are naturally bright sound undefined in the neck - personally I'd never think to put something so hot in the neck.....even if the guitar was fitted with a super hot pickup in the bridge.
Especially given low tuning, and fuzz and humbuckers together. Thats like adding in every aspect possible to make undefined sludge.

[Mincer]

Re: Disappearing notes, fuzz and ceramic vs alnico 2 magnets...

Welcome to the forum!

The Custom Custom should be powerful enough that if the poles miss the strings, it will still be loud. Especially in the neck. As far as why the note is 'missing', it could be excessive mids/gain/tunings canceling that frequency, making others much louder.

[conorsearl]

Re: Disappearing notes, fuzz and ceramic vs alnico 2 magnets...

The only difference between those two pickups is the magnet. If you put a ceramic mag into a Custom Custom it literally IS a Custom.

Yeah I get that, which was what led my friend to purchasing the Custom Custom. But looking at the advertised specs, the ceramic magnet offers a very different EQ curve, pronounced mids and highs with less bass, while the Alnico2 looks really scooped in the mid range.

[conorsearl]

Re: Disappearing notes, fuzz and ceramic vs alnico 2 magnets...

Each guitar will have its own identity.....as you have found.

Some might have a better low end response, some might me more 'combed', meaning you get a slightly more vintage tone, some quite sharp - giving you great top-end bite.

Certainly an A2 magnet Custom family pickup will make for much less bright treble content, and increased low mids, so the natural tendency would be to do just what you have found, which is to make the higher note be subsumed by the wound string note.
But any of the Custom family in the neck is going to border on a muddy/undefined mess if not carefully controlled. Hell, even vintage strength pickups which are naturally bright sound undefined in the neck - personally I'd never think to put something so hot in the neck.....even if the guitar was fitted with a super hot pickup in the bridge.
Especially given low tuning, and fuzz and humbuckers together. Thats like adding in every aspect possible to make undefined sludge.

I'd say sludge is a good description. The tone he's getting out of the guitar he likes isn't exactly what I would call articulate.

The tone he's going for is kind of like a super gnarly Queens of the Stone Age thing. That clapton woman tone on 11, with a fuzzface turned all the way on kind of thing.

Anyway, looking at the EQ differences with the two pickups, I suspect with that much fuzz, and the EQ pedal he keeps on, the A2 is just not handling these particular frequencies the same way his other pickups do.

[conorsearl]

Re: Disappearing notes, fuzz and ceramic vs alnico 2 magnets...

Welcome to the forum!

The Custom Custom should be powerful enough that if the poles miss the strings, it will still be loud. Especially in the neck. As far as why the note is 'missing', it could be excessive mids/gain/tunings canceling that frequency, making others much louder.

I agree, playing that guitar in a more typical fashion I got it to respond just like I would expect a les paul to respond.

A slight digression, I have always assumed that while the individual poles each bring the magnetic force from below towards the strings and create a magnetic field under the strings, they functionally work like one thing not six individual things. Is this a wrong assumption?

[AlexR]

Re: Disappearing notes, fuzz and ceramic vs alnico 2 magnets...

The screws and slugs create 6 individual points for the magnetic flux lines to terminate to. Their proximity makes the field somewhat even, but there are still a lot of reports of strings moving during bends and the signal being affected.

And the note isn't missing, it's just that amongst the much stronger bass signal, the more treble one is less obvious. The A2 will be subduing the treble content that would make the octave stand out, whilst at the same time emphasising the lower frequencies of the fundamental.
Sludge tone isn't great for cut, so you might have to change a few things given the tone is working against him so much.

[ICTGoober]

Re: Disappearing notes, fuzz and ceramic vs alnico 2 magnets...

I have always assumed that while the individual poles each bring the magnetic force from below towards the strings and create a magnetic field under the strings, they functionally work like one thing not six individual things. Is this a wrong assumption?

Yuppers.