A QUESTION FOR MINCER

[GuitarDoc]

I'm posting this in the forum (rather than sending you a PM) because others may also learn from this.

Dave, you recently referred to an article you wrote entitled "DO IT ALL: 2 HUMBUCKERS AND A 5-WAY SWITCH". You included a wiring diagram and switch position explanation.

http://www.seymourduncan.com/blog/wp-content/uploads/HHInOutSplit5WORKS-1024x786.gif

My questions are:
How can switch position 2 be outside coils (screw coils)? You have the green wire grounded and the red + white + black wires going to the input lug of the vol pot. Referring to the neck pup, this means that the north/screw coil is essentially out of the circuit since both the start and finish wires (black and white) are connected together and only the south/slug coil is active, and this is the "INSIDE" coil.

Also, position 4 is supposed to be inside coils (slug coils), but you have red + white + green going to ground thus shorting out the slug coil (green and red) to ground and only the screw coil is active. This is the "OUTSIDE" coil.

What am I missing?

[Bowtomecha]

Re: A QUESTION FOR MINCER

The south coil on the neck humbucker is the one closest to the neck and is the outside coil. It would be the screw coil on regular humbuckers.

I believe he has the magnet flipped in the bridge by the way.

[Bowtomecha]

Re: A QUESTION FOR MINCER

I think the wiring should be flipped as well.

[Bowtomecha]

Re: A QUESTION FOR MINCER

The red and white junction on the neck pickup, when selected to output (the red wire on the second position bypasses the switch to out) outputs the grounded green wire to hot red wire, which is the south coil (outside neck coil). On the 4th position, that same white red junction is shorted to ground. So you have grounded green to grounded red which eliminates the neck south (outer coil) and grounds the white. The black is hot so the grounded white to hot black outputs only the neck north (inner coil).

The same will apply to the bridge. Except that because the magnet needs to be reversed in order to have the humcancelling in the inner/outer pairings, I think the wires need to be reversed or perhaps wired inside out? Where instead of humbucker coil finishes being joined, the starts are joined and one finish is hot and the other is grounded. I believe so anyways.

[GuitarDoc]

Re: A QUESTION FOR MINCER

The south coil on the neck humbucker is the one closest to the neck and is the outside coil. It would be the screw coil on regular humbuckers.

Ah, silly me. I got the slug and screw coils backwards. Then Dave makes perfect sense with his diagram.

Dave, if you read this...sorry for questioning your wisdom. My brain got temporarily screwed up backwards.

[ArtieToo]

Re: A QUESTION FOR MINCER

In Mincers diagram, neither #2 or #4 is hum cancelling. Also, doubtful of a magnet flip or #2, #3, and #4 would all be OOP. But otherwise, is completely normal. Red/white shorted to ground is inside coils. Red/white shorted to "hot" is outside coils. Which is what he's doing.

Edit: Hey Mincer. May I have permission to modify your diagram with two variations that make all positions HB'ing? One variation would use the magnet flip, and the other would use the "Slutbucker" technique. (Inside bridge/outside neck, and vice-versa.)

Artie

[Mincer]

Re: A QUESTION FOR MINCER

Absolutely.
You know, now that I think about it, I had asked someone here for some help on the diagram originally, and I sort of remember modifying it for all positions to be humbucking, and it was a slight modification. Thing was, I don't remember if I modified it because I was wiring up my own guitar or someone else's with 1 SD and 1 non-SD pickup.

[Bowtomecha]

Re: A QUESTION FOR MINCER

I looked up his article again and he states: “I needed one pickup to be reverse wound/reverse polarity, so the splits would be correct, and there wouldn’t be any phase issues.” Isn’t this essentially trying to be humcancelling?

https://www.seymourduncan.com/blog/the-tone-garage/do-it-all-2-humbuckers-and-a-5-way-switch

[Mincer]

Re: A QUESTION FOR MINCER

Yes, the goal was to be hum-cancelling in all positions, which it is.

[Bowtomecha]

Re: A QUESTION FOR MINCER

Did you mean to have the wire colors the same for the bridge? The north and south coils will be reversed magnetically but don’t the starts and finishes need to change direction somehow?

[Mincer]

Re: A QUESTION FOR MINCER

Did you mean to have the wire colors the same for the bridge? The north and south coils will be reversed magnetically but don’t the starts and finishes need to change direction somehow?

Now that I am looking at it, you may be right. I'll tell y'all, I am good at wiring when I am researching it, but as soon as I am finished I feel like I have to learn it all over again. Maybe that is what I switched....Doc or Artie, can you verify?

[GuitarDoc]

Re: A QUESTION FOR MINCER

Well, I was wondering that too. I'll have to take another look at it and see if I can figure it out.

I am like you...I can do the research and figuring and get it all straight in my head, but I just don't retain it and next time I have to go through all of that process all over again.

[GuitarDoc]

Re: A QUESTION FOR MINCER

OK, Dave, in your diagram you did say that the bridge pup needs to be rw/rp. So I think that's all correct and then they will be hum-cancelling.

If you didn't do that, then, for example, when you have position 2 (outside coils) you would have both south (screw) coils active which would normally have winds in the same direction...green wires (start) as the ground, and the red wires (finish) would both be hot going to the output. That would not be hum cancelling. But when you have one of the pickups (as you said, the bridge pup) reverse wound, then the bridge pup would have the red as the start and the green as the finish of the south (screw) coil. So the two south (or screw) coils would have winds in opposite directions and would thus be hum cancelling.

And if you didn't have one of the pups rw/rp, you could get the same result by flipping the magnet in the bridge pup and using the opposite wires. Thus you would have the green wire from the neck connected to the red wire of the bridge going to ground and the red wire from the neck connected to the green wire of the bridge going to hot.

Did I get all that correct?

Someone please correct me if I'm wrong. But it does appear like Mincer was correct with his diagram in his article...

https://www.seymourduncan.com/blog/wp-content/uploads/HHInOutSplit5WORKS-1024x786.gif

[Mincer]

Re: A QUESTION FOR MINCER

Yes, the bridge pickup needs to be rw/rp. I flipped a magnet. The issues you mentioned were exactly what I encountered before I flipped it.

[Bowtomecha]

Re: A QUESTION FOR MINCER

In that case with rw/rp on the bridge pickup, shouldn’t the “screw coil” have it’s red lead grounded? It’s supposed to be reverse wound to the adjacent south coil and the neck south “screw coil” as well. So it would be red (grounded)-green/ black-white? The starts and finishes aren’t really reversed but inverted inside out to account for the magnet flip. I think. I hate that I have to reorient myself every time I try to wire a guitar like this lol. I flipped the magnet in my humbucker last week and haven’t swapped the leads yet and my middle 3 way position is out of phase. It’s nice actually. But I’m about to install a rotary switch so I’m drawing things up for the correct phasing.

I do a clockwise counterclockwise motion with my fingers when I have the guitar in front of me for each coil lol.