banner

Announcement

Collapse
No announcement yet.

Output comparison: DiMarzio Super D in parallel vs. Gibson Deluxe MiniHB in series

Collapse
X
 
  • Filter
  • Time
  • Show
Clear All
new posts

  • dr.barlo
    replied
    Re: Output comparison: DiMarzio Super D in parallel vs. Gibson Deluxe MiniHB in serie

    I am using a replica of the Colorsound 18v Power Boost. This sucker

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1GE_N6m6JH8

    Not that I am into the whole Pink Floyd - Gilmour imitation thing (love them a lot tho)... Just got it through a trade with some pedal that I don't remember. This is quite a powerful boost that has bass and treble; and loves working with this Deluxe of mine.

    I sure will be checking that Seafoam Lighthouse Boost tho! Thanks!

    B

    Leave a comment:


  • chadd
    replied
    Re: Output comparison: DiMarzio Super D in parallel vs. Gibson Deluxe MiniHB in serie

    The custom shop route isn't going to set you back that much in the grand scheme of things. If you have to take a second stab at this, you'll essentially be at the same cost for the bridge replacement. As far as boosting, I've been intrigued by the Seafoam Lighthouse Boost, it seems really versatile. I used a Boss EQ-200 for a similar type boost for a couple songs, but also had other curves programmed. Now I'm just spoiled with my Kemper.

    Leave a comment:


  • dr.barlo
    replied
    Re: Output comparison: DiMarzio Super D in parallel vs. Gibson Deluxe MiniHB in serie

    Originally posted by chadd View Post
    I'd go custom shop and even consider sending them your pickup with the caveat that you want the tapped tone to be exactly what you have now. They should be able to get pretty close to what you want. Side note: that's pretty much the perfect looking Norlin for me. I loved Deluxes, especially the maple neck models.
    I missed the side note...



    Cool. I love those honeybursts. I was lucky.

    B

    Leave a comment:


  • dr.barlo
    replied
    Re: Output comparison: DiMarzio Super D in parallel vs. Gibson Deluxe MiniHB in serie

    Cool! Thanks!



    I am inclined to keep on using the guitar as it is... In the bridge, it can do this



    and this



    Maybe get a modded GE-7 !

    Joking aside, it is quite a useful pedal actually...

    And if I get itchy, I think I am gonna go Duncan Custom shop asking for a tapped mini HB set (or HB under a p90 cover) not sacrificing this 6.20K dlx mini HB tone and "add" a beefier overwound PAF kinda mod. I dunno if it's feasible tho...

    B

    Leave a comment:


  • freefrog
    replied
    Re: Output comparison: DiMarzio Super D in parallel vs. Gibson Deluxe MiniHB in serie

    Originally posted by dr.barlo View Post
    Great info freefrog! I keep looking at those over and over again.

    Very cool!

    Thanks!

    Now, the single split version sounds like more like the mini HB. As I intend to use this guitar for gigging and all, in some places the noise could be an issue. So gotta think.

    If I go Duncan custom shop, it looks like a safer option as Chadd is saying. Or leave it be and hit fat boosts as I have been doing...

    B
    You're welcome. :-)

    I keep thinking that parallel wiring might be a viable option (since it's still stronger than the neck mini-hum of my Wilshire)... but the only way to be sure would be to test it and/or to check if your stock neck pickup spits high voltage / hosts a strong mag or not...

    Now, the choice is yours: idsnowdog and chadd gave you a couple of alternative solutions that I'd find interesting too.

    All that being said: there's various ways to "tune" any pickup with a few passive components added to form a LRC filter.

    For example, if a P90 sized DM sounds too weak in parallel, it's possible to leave the whole pickup wired normally (in series) BUT to wire it in parallel with a dummy coil + resistor (+ possibly a capacitor) in order to obtain the requested overall resistance, inductance and resonant peak... the problems are 1)to have access to the components needed and 2)to have a few devices allowing to do reliable measurements.

    I have such circuits in several guitars and have mounted equivalent networks for other people (mainly a friend who is a pro musician and uses my tweaks on stage) but I know for a fact that it pften requires some tedious experiments before to work as wanted...

    More later. Enjoy in the meantime - you have a glorious guitar that I'd probably leave as it is if it was mine.

    EDIT - my guitars host pickups going from super weak to super strong (roughly: 1.2H to 12H; yes, the strongest has ten times more inductance than the weakest). I play ALL of them through the same amps / pedalboards / MFX's without real issues... I just turn a knob here and there and when I need some extra gain, I add an OD or some germanium treble booster... EQ are great tools too.
    What I'm trying to say (or to confirm, since you already know it) is that strong pickups are not absolutely required IME and IMHO. They don't even avoid the use of boosters - see Adrian Smith plugging his DiMarzio Super Dist in a mid centric EQ and a TS; LOL...

    FWIW (= rambing from an old fart).
    Last edited by freefrog; 07-05-2020, 12:23 AM.

    Leave a comment:


  • dr.barlo
    replied
    Re: Output comparison: DiMarzio Super D in parallel vs. Gibson Deluxe MiniHB in serie

    Great info freefrog! I keep looking at those over and over again.

    Very cool!

    Thanks!

    Now, the single split version sounds like more like the mini HB. As I intend to use this guitar for gigging and all, in some places the noise could be an issue. So gotta think.

    If I go Duncan custom shop, it looks like a safer option as Chadd is saying. Or leave it be and hit fat boosts as I have been doing...

    B

    Leave a comment:


  • chadd
    replied
    Re: Output comparison: DiMarzio Super D in parallel vs. Gibson Deluxe MiniHB in serie

    Originally posted by dr.barlo View Post
    So either I gotta live with the hum (use Super D split as Super D parallel is wimpy), or get me a fancy modded GE-7 to use as a "fat boost" and keep on using the mini...



    It is a bummer, because this guitar does Vivian Campell kinda hot rod Marshall LP tones really good even with the minis.

    Back to square one...

    Duncan custom shop a bit pricey but seems to be the only solid option.

    So what say you guys?

    B
    I'd go custom shop and even consider sending them your pickup with the caveat that you want the tapped tone to be exactly what you have now. They should be able to get pretty close to what you want. Side note: that's pretty much the perfect looking Norlin for me. I loved Deluxes, especially the maple neck models.

    Leave a comment:


  • Aceman
    replied
    Re: Output comparison: DiMarzio Super D in parallel vs. Gibson Deluxe MiniHB in serie

    Parallel is 1/4 of the Humbucker output.

    Leave a comment:


  • freefrog
    replied
    Re: Output comparison: DiMarzio Super D in parallel vs. Gibson Deluxe MiniHB in serie

    And as a postscriptum, the Ableton screen showing the recording levels of these tracks:

    Click image for larger version

Name:	DimSDSingleNotes&ChordsLevels.jpg
Views:	1
Size:	40.7 KB
ID:	5820981

    Thinner lines = single notes from unfretted low E to high E, 22th fret (NOT pictured above). Thicker black traces = the chords pictured above.

    Upper track: DM SD in parallel.

    2d upper track: DM SD in series.

    3d track: DM SD split, coil 1 then coil 2.

    4th track: DM DLX neck in series, then the mini hum of my Wilshire (green track).


    NOTE - These pics don't translate any advice or recommandation. They don't show how a DM SD would sound in bridge position of a LP, with a Gibson mini-hum in neck position. They are just meant to give a "rough idea" of what I was talking about in my first answer.

    FWIW (= a mere hasty attempt to help a fellow musician or anyone else interested). :-)
    Last edited by freefrog; 07-01-2020, 10:45 PM.

    Leave a comment:


  • freefrog
    replied
    Re: Output comparison: DiMarzio Super D in parallel vs. Gibson Deluxe MiniHB in serie

    Ok, below are some tests done hastily yesterday.

    1-"Raw" resonant frequencies of a P90 sized DiMarzio Super Dist in series (black line) vs split (pink line) vs parallel (light brown line, the higher pitched). The blue line with a rounder resonance comes from a mini-humbucker in my Epi Wilshire: as expected, it resonates around the same frequency than the DM in single coil mode... but it has a rounder response and less high freq because of Eddy currents (due to the cover):

    Click image for larger version

Name:	DiMarzioSDparallelSeriesSingleVsMiniHum.jpg
Views:	1
Size:	67.5 KB
ID:	5820973

    2-Below the screeshots of stacked chords, played from unfretted strings to 12th fret, with the guitar plugged DIRECT to the board.
    Guitar used: my experimental superstrat with a hole through the body. 500k volume pot. No load tone control. Cable used: a standard 450pF / 10ft one.

    a-DiMarzio P90 sized SD in series (orange line) vs parallel (blue line):

    Click image for larger version

Name:	DiMarzioSDseriesVSparallel.jpg
Views:	1
Size:	38.6 KB
ID:	5820974

    b-The same in series (orange line) vs split, coil 1 (the closest to the bridge; blue line):

    Click image for larger version

Name:	DiMarzioSDsingle1VSeries.jpg
Views:	1
Size:	38.4 KB
ID:	5820975

    c-Same thing with in blue the pickup split, coil 2 (the closest to the neck, still in blue):

    Click image for larger version

Name:	DiMarzioSDsingle2VSseries.jpg
Views:	1
Size:	36.5 KB
ID:	5820976

    d-the bridge DM SD in series (orange line) upon the neck mini-hum of my Wilshire (blue line). NOTE: I like the min-hum set far from the strings AND it's not a Gibson mini-hum...

    Click image for larger version

Name:	DiMarzioSDseriesVSepiMiniHum.jpg
Views:	1
Size:	36.0 KB
ID:	5820977

    e-The bridge DM SD in series vs another P90 sized DiMarzio in series, neck position (it's a DLX model, pictured in blue here):

    Click image for larger version

Name:	DiMarzioSDseriesVSdlxNseries.jpg
Views:	1
Size:	58.2 KB
ID:	5820978

    e-The bridge DM SD in PARALLEL (orange line) vs the neck mini-hum of my Wilshire (blue line). It's probably the most important pic here, albeit the most "discussible" because of the differences involved... But hey, that's all I can share right now:

    Click image for larger version

Name:	DiMarzioSDparallelVSminiHum.jpg
Views:	1
Size:	58.4 KB
ID:	5820979

    f-The bridge DM SD in parallel (orange line) vs the P90 sized neck DM DLX, in series (blue line). As expected, they are mismatched:

    Click image for larger version

Name:	DiMarzioDlxnVSDiMarzioSDparallel.jpg
Views:	1
Size:	57.9 KB
ID:	5820980

    Leave a comment:


  • dr.barlo
    replied
    Re: Output comparison: DiMarzio Super D in parallel vs. Gibson Deluxe MiniHB in serie

    But wouldn't I lose the tele kinda tone that I really like?

    See?

    B

    Leave a comment:


  • idsnowdog
    replied
    Re: Output comparison: DiMarzio Super D in parallel vs. Gibson Deluxe MiniHB in serie

    Originally posted by dr.barlo View Post
    So either I gotta live with the hum (use Super D split as Super D parallel is wimpy), or get me a fancy modded GE-7 to use as a "fat boost" and keep on using the mini...



    It is a bummer, because this guitar does Vivian Campell kinda hot rod Marshall LP tones really good even with the minis.

    Back to square one...

    Duncan custom shop a bit pricey but seems to be the only solid option.

    So what say you guys?

    B
    I would try the Mojotone hot mini. I think that Alnico 8 and 12K resistance would remedy many of the mini's problems.

    Leave a comment:


  • dr.barlo
    replied
    Re: Output comparison: DiMarzio Super D in parallel vs. Gibson Deluxe MiniHB in serie

    Originally posted by Aceman View Post
    No way. A SupeD in parallel is gonna be about single coil output. Mini HB is gonna be a 59 at least....
    So either I gotta live with the hum (use Super D split as Super D parallel is wimpy), or get me a fancy modded GE-7 to use as a "fat boost" and keep on using the mini...



    It is a bummer, because this guitar does Vivian Campell kinda hot rod Marshall LP tones really good even with the minis.

    Back to square one...

    Duncan custom shop a bit pricey but seems to be the only solid option.

    So what say you guys?

    B

    Leave a comment:


  • dr.barlo
    replied
    Re: Output comparison: DiMarzio Super D in parallel vs. Gibson Deluxe MiniHB in serie

    Originally posted by freefrog View Post
    I'll RE check ASAP how a P90 sized Super D wired in parallel sounds comparatively to a mini-hum. Not easy since I'm busy.

    In the meantime, let's share a few theoretical things (I write fast and the working day has not started yet so let's do it).

    A P90 sized DiMarzio Super D has practically the same resistance and inductance than a full sized one. It has the double thick ceramic mag. It has the brass BP. The only difference is in the smaller bobbins, closer to each others, with a different "coupling" factor affecting slightly the upper harmonics. It's a wee bit weaker too, because of the narrower magnetic windows, but height settings should cure that easily.

    In series, it would measure something like 13k and 6.5H to 7H (out of my head, from memories).

    In parallel, it should measure +/- 3.25k and an inductance of 1.75H.

    In split mode, it would deliver +/- 6.5k & 3.5H.


    A Gibson mini-hum measures around 6.5k or 7k and 3.2H (if memory serves me).

    A Tele bridge PU would typically exhibits 6k to 10k (depending on the AWG used) and 2.5H to 4H. Let's say 3.2H for average inductance: it's the same than a mini-hum and it explains partly why a mini-hum can appear as "Tele sounding".


    What these observations suggest:

    -IMHO, there's no need to route a guitar for a full sized Super D when a P90 sized one would do the same job @ 95%.

    -If the target is the resistance and inductance of a mini-hum and/or of a Tele bridge SC, the Super D will have to be split: @ 6.5k and 3.5 H, it should mimic a large part of their voicing.

    -The Super D in parallel would have a higher pitched resonant peak, giving a thinner tone. It wouldn't necessarily be that weaker thx to its double thick mag...

    As usual, the value of all these numbers is RELATIVE: the tone of each PU and mode will depend on the host guitar and on its wiring/pots.

    FOOTNOTE - everybody knows that I love useless footnotes that nobody reads nor understands :-))

    I've here some TV Jones classic measuring +/- 4k and a tiny 1.6H to 1.9H. They SHOULD sound weak with such a low inductance...
    But they have double thick mags and big mag poles, just like a Super D (and I think that Larry found the Super D original recipe in the architecture of Filter'Tron's, anyway).
    When I put a bridge TV Jones Classic in parallel with a 3.3nF capacitor to ground, it sounds almost as loud as a regular P.A.F. replica... and the cap "tunes" the voicing in a convincing P.A.F. way.
    So, if a Super D in parallel seems too trebly, a workable solution might be to put a small value cap in parallel with it. :-)

    FWIW. See ya!
    Thanks in advance!

    I gotta tell you, I appreciate all the information (including the details in the footnotes and all) quite a bit. This whole Henry thing that I've learned from your posts actually make lotsa sense to me. I used to go for the resonant peak etc. but still that did not explain why I felt a 7.70K 59n sounded more strat single coil like than say a 7.20K PGn... Even tho that 59n had more output etc. I had a Gauss meter for a while (like 15-20 years ago before it died on me) and comparing a weak a5 with a3 (both having almost the same Gauss) sounded significantly different. Meanwhile, weak a5's and a4's sounded close. So the Gauss reading was important, but still no cigar. But with those inductance figures, it makes way more sense to me. And actually it is kinda straightforward if I think about it. It is about the fq response curve. The same thing that is happening when comparing a reactive load with different inductors. I am thinking of the "Aiken" type of reactive load.

    So thanks! I mean it!

    I am gonna go over your message in more detail.

    B

    Leave a comment:


  • dr.barlo
    replied
    Re: Output comparison: DiMarzio Super D in parallel vs. Gibson Deluxe MiniHB in serie

    Originally posted by Dave Locher View Post
    Got it - you want to install the Super D that fits the guitar route, along with series/parallel switching?

    It is definitely worth a try. Super D in parallel is pretty twangy Tele sounding to my ears. And in series it is definitely not thin or weak. I actually prefer the split sound so maybe try that if parallel doesn't do it for you.
    Right on!

    I intend to buy a Bourns push/pull pot together with the pickup. I'll go for the neck tone I think (it's the pot that I am using the least on this particular guitar).

    B

    Leave a comment:

Working...
X