Announcement

Collapse
No announcement yet.

Help determining "hot inner" and "cold outer" etc

Collapse
X
 
  • Filter
  • Time
  • Show
Clear All
new posts

  • Help determining "hot inner" and "cold outer" etc

    Hello, it's been awhile since I've posted and I hope this thread is OK (in the proper section of the forum, etc)

    I have a Schaller Megaswitch and the schematic's terminology for wire designations are as follows: "hot wire outer coil", "hot wire inner coil", "cold wire outer coil", and "cold wire inner coil". I have absolutely ZERO clue what that means... After a Google & forum search, I found some information but it's all puzzle pieces and I just can't guess what it all means... So I'm seeking help from someone smarter than myself.

    Much appreciated and happy Thanksgiving!

    P.S. I have soldered several times before with SD's schematics. It was easy because they're well illustrated and color coded. However, I am confused with Schaller's schematic and terminology.

  • #2
    My guess is that they assume you know which coil wire is which with your pickups. I'm guessing they mean which coil is closest to the neck and bridge for outside and the two coils closest to each other as being the inner coils. For most, this is usually slug vs screws. The slugs are usually inner and the screws outer. Which lead is hot or cold is usually something manufacturer specific. Simply, if you know what the wire colors are supposed to be, you won't have to guess. The hot wire is usually the end of the coil, while the cold or ground is the start of the coil. The end is the last wrap you can see and the start being the first wrap that is buried under all the other coil wraps. It actually doesn't matter which one is hot or cold SO LONG as all the other pickups follow the same wiring layout. Reversing the wires on only one coil or pickup would cause cancellation to occur and you would hear it quite easily.

    Comment


    • #3
      Unfortunately there's no standard for pickup wire color codes; they vary from one maker to another.
      Are your humbuckers Duncans?

      Here's a color chart for some brands:

      http://www.planetz.com/wp-content/up...lor_codes1.jpg
      .
      "My hovercraft is full of eels."

      .

      Comment


      • #4
        Originally posted by Ewizard View Post
        My guess is that they assume you know which coil wire is which with your pickups. I'm guessing they mean which coil is closest to the neck and bridge for outside and the two coils closest to each other as being the inner coils. For most, this is usually slug vs screws. The slugs are usually inner and the screws outer. Which lead is hot or cold is usually something manufacturer specific. Simply, if you know what the wire colors are supposed to be, you won't have to guess. The hot wire is usually the end of the coil, while the cold or ground is the start of the coil. The end is the last wrap you can see and the start being the first wrap that is buried under all the other coil wraps. It actually doesn't matter which one is hot or cold SO LONG as all the other pickups follow the same wiring layout. Reversing the wires on only one coil or pickup would cause cancellation to occur and you would hear it quite easily.
        Yes, they assume that but I don't have a clue haha

        Originally posted by eclecticsynergy View Post
        Unfortunately there's no standard for pickup wire color codes; they vary from one maker to another.
        Are your humbuckers Duncans?

        Here's a color chart for some brands:

        http://www.planetz.com/wp-content/up...lor_codes1.jpg
        Hello. Yes they are Duncans.

        I'm familiar with this color code and have used it several times. However, I am trying to determine the wire color to the Schaller schematic's designation.

        So to elaborate on my assumptions... Hot / lead / output must be a "hot" of one of the coils. Let's say, hot outer. And ground may be cold outer. The inners, I don't have a clue. Nonetheless, this is all guesswork based on, well, nothing really. That simply will not do, at least for me.

        For a Duncan humbucker, does anyone know which color wire is "hot wire outer coil", "hot wire inner coil", "cold wire outer coil", and "cold wire inner coil"?

        Thanks


        Comment


        • #5
          Originally posted by AllHailDIO View Post
          Yes, they assume that but I don't have a clue haha



          Hello. Yes they are Duncans.

          I'm familiar with this color code and have used it several times. However, I am trying to determine the wire color to the Schaller schematic's designation.

          So to elaborate on my assumptions... Hot / lead / output must be a "hot" of one of the coils. Let's say, hot outer. And ground may be cold outer. The inners, I don't have a clue. Nonetheless, this is all guesswork based on, well, nothing really. That simply will not do, at least for me.

          For a Duncan humbucker, does anyone know which color wire is "hot wire outer coil", "hot wire inner coil", "cold wire outer coil", and "cold wire inner coil"?

          Thanks

          Because there is some variation even amongst Duncan pups based on their design, it would be best if you could tell us the models of your 2 duncan pickups and whether you bought them as a set or not. If bought as a set, there is a chance that one od them is setup as Reverse Wind / Reverse Polarity (RWRP). And tell us which pup you plan to use in Neck position and which in Bridge position.
          Last edited by Jack_TriPpEr; 11-27-2020, 02:51 AM.
          Sanford: "The hardest part about tone chasing is losing the expectations associated with the hardware."

          Comment


          • #6
            Originally posted by Jack_TriPpEr View Post

            Because there is some variation even amongst Duncan pups based on their design, it would be best if you could tell us the models of your 2 duncan pickups and whether you bought them as a set or not. If bought as a set, there is a chance that one od them is setup as Reverse Wind / Reverse Polarity (RWRP). And tell us which pup you plan to use in Neck position and which in Bridge position.
            Hello
            Doh, I should had mentioned it is a neck position humbucker and indeed a Duncan. Specifically, a Duncan Full Shred neck model which will be paired with a BKP Riff Raff bridge model. For this particular megaswitch (PRS style), I flipped a magnet to swap the polarity as instructed by Schaller.

            I never heard of humbuckers being specifically identified as RWRP. I thought that attribute was only applicable to single coils.

            Sorry for my confusion... I want to clarify. So from what I understand from your response, that the model, if it was in a set or not, potentially RWRP or not, and assuming when it was made, that would affect... what exactly? I was under the impression that the colors of the wires are always the same for Duncan, regardless of model, bought as a set or individually, or when it was made. Or is my error the assumption that the wire colors have a direct correlation to my question of what is a "hot outer coil", etc? Thus instead in reality, though the wire colors may be consistent thru all Duncan humbuckers, that consistency stops in regards to "hot outer coil" vs "cold outer coil", etc?

            Other words, does that mean wire colors have no direct correlation to my question then? That a "hot outer" etc is never the same wire color among Duncan humbuckers?

            If that's the case, if its case-by-case, perhaps I have to follow where the wires start and end on a coil as Ewizard previously suggested (if I understood correctly). Though I have no clue really how to make that distinction.

            Sorry, I'm a little slow but I like to learn new things. I appreciate your insight and time, everyone.

            Comment


            • #7
              Originally posted by AllHailDIO View Post

              Hello
              Doh, I should had mentioned it is a neck position humbucker and indeed a Duncan. Specifically, a Duncan Full Shred neck model which will be paired with a BKP Riff Raff bridge model. For this particular megaswitch (PRS style), I flipped a magnet to swap the polarity as instructed by Schaller.

              I never heard of humbuckers being specifically identified as RWRP. I thought that attribute was only applicable to single coils.

              Sorry for my confusion... I want to clarify. So from what I understand from your response, that the model, if it was in a set or not, potentially RWRP or not, and assuming when it was made, that would affect... what exactly? I was under the impression that the colors of the wires are always the same for Duncan, regardless of model, bought as a set or individually, or when it was made. Or is my error the assumption that the wire colors have a direct correlation to my question of what is a "hot outer coil", etc? Thus instead in reality, though the wire colors may be consistent thru all Duncan humbuckers, that consistency stops in regards to "hot outer coil" vs "cold outer coil", etc?

              Other words, does that mean wire colors have no direct correlation to my question then? That a "hot outer" etc is never the same wire color among Duncan humbuckers?

              If that's the case, if its case-by-case, perhaps I have to follow where the wires start and end on a coil as Ewizard previously suggested (if I understood correctly). Though I have no clue really how to make that distinction.

              Sorry, I'm a little slow but I like to learn new things. I appreciate your insight and time, everyone.
              A standard design Duncan neck humbucker (whuch the Full Shred neck pup is) has the inner coil as North magnetic polarity with the Black wire as North Start ("hot inner" in Schaller terms) and White wire as North Finish ("cold inner"), and the outer coil as South magnetic polarity with the Red wire as South Finish ("hot outer") and Green wire as South Start ("cold outer"). Standard design Duncan bridge humbuckers have the North coil (and its Black and White wires) placed as the inner coil, and the South coil (with its Red and Green wires) placed as the outer coil.

              An example of a Duncan brudge humbucker where the arrangement is different is the P-Rail, where the inner (North) coil's wires are Red & Green instead of Black and White.

              It is not just Duncan's singlecoils that may be set up as RWRP. I mentioned that if two Duncans are bought as a set, one of them may be set up as RWRP. Another example is the neck P-Rail pickup, which is RWRP. I also just learned from another current thread that the SD Pearly Gates Plus is setup as RWRP.
              Sanford: "The hardest part about tone chasing is losing the expectations associated with the hardware."

              Comment


              • #8
                Ahh I see, it's far more variables than I could have ever imagined. I'm so glad there's things like forums with knowledgeable people. I would be really lost without people's help and the Internet!

                Thank you so much! Even my small brain can comprehend this haha
                Last edited by AllHailDIO; 11-27-2020, 08:45 PM.

                Comment


                • #9
                  Originally posted by AllHailDIO View Post
                  Ahh I see, it's far more variables than I could have ever imagined. I'm so glad there's things like forums with knowledge people. I would be really lost without people's help and the Internet!

                  Thank you so much! Even my small brain can comprehend this haha
                  Glad to help.

                  Attached is the color code for a Bare Knuckle bridge humbucker. While the color codes are different, the associations btw "North Start" being "hot inner" etc. are the same as the standard Duncan *bridge* pup i described above. Let us know if you run into questions.


                  ​​​​​​​
                  Sanford: "The hardest part about tone chasing is losing the expectations associated with the hardware."

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    I should add, that sometimes the pickup you receive, is different than spec, like the magnet being flipped so polarity of each coil is opposite of what I wrote above. So.... its best to use a multimeter and compass to measure and document the specs of what you actually have (i.e. which coil each wire is tied to and whether it is the hot or cold wire for that coil, DC resistance of the overall pup and each coil, check for shorts, and magnet orientation) before installing and running into problems.

                    Here is a video that i think is a good tutorial, for how to use a multimeter and compass to do that:

                    https://youtu.be/7UfxQBhqen8
                    Sanford: "The hardest part about tone chasing is losing the expectations associated with the hardware."

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Originally posted by Jack_TriPpEr View Post
                      I should add, that sometimes the pickup you receive, is different than spec, like the magnet being flipped so polarity of each coil is opposite of what I wrote above. So.... its best to use a multimeter and compass to measure and document the specs of what you actually have (i.e. which coil each wire is tied to and whether it is the hot or cold wire for that coil, DC resistance of the overall pup and each coil, check for shorts, and magnet orientation) before installing and running into problems.

                      Here is a video that i think is a good tutorial, for how to use a multimeter and compass to do that:

                      https://youtu.be/7UfxQBhqen8
                      Awesome, thank you for this find!

                      So to clarify, once I find my pairs (of which 2 wires are from the same coil), each pair has a hot and ground (naturally, the hot connected to the red terminal on the multimeter, and black terminal for ground). So the screw coil pair, the hot wire is "hot outer" and the ground wire is "cold outer"? Etc.
                      ​​​​​​
                      And screw coil being "outer", slug being "inner".

                      If so, this is perfect. I can be for certain.

                      I can't wait for tomorrow. When I'll have some free time to do this

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        Originally posted by AllHailDIO View Post
                        ...So the screw coil pair, the hot wire is "hot outer" and the ground wire is "cold outer"? Etc.
                        ​​​​​​
                        And screw coil being "outer", slug coil being "inner"?
                        Well, both coils of a Full Shred have screws, so we can't refer to its two coils as slug and screw. Instead, we can refer to one coil as inner and the other as outer. And yes, each one will have a hot wire and cold wire.
                        Sanford: "The hardest part about tone chasing is losing the expectations associated with the hardware."

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          Originally posted by Jack_TriPpEr View Post

                          Well, both coils of a Full Shred have screws, so we can't refer to its two coils as slug and screw. Instead, we can refer to one coil as inner and the other as outer. And yes, each one will have a hot wire and cold wire.
                          True for the Full Shred.

                          Thanks!

                          Comment

                          Working...
                          X