Firebird vs. Mini Humbucker pick ups.

[SirJackdeFuzz II]

Most people say Gibson Firebird pick ups is NOT Mini Humbuckers, but a design onto it's self.
How much truth it in that statement ?

IF a Firebird pick up is ''it's own thing'', just how much does it differ from a Mini Hum, in construction and tone ?

Is the aftermarket pick ups for a Firebird (like that of Seymour Duncan & Lace) accurate Firebird pick ups, or just Mini Humbuckers disguised as Firebird units ?

ALL info will be greatly appreciated.

[AlexR]

Very true.

The construction is as different as possible sonically.
A minihumbucker (Les Paul Deluxe style) is like a PAF type humbucker.....bar magnet below with 'slugs' and screws'. I have these in commas as the slugs are a thick rail. The screw are very small so have less mass than a regular humbucker.

A vintage Firebird has 2 thin bar magnets inside each bobbin, which makes them like a punchy fender pickup sonically. But they still possess 2 small coils which cancel hum. Despite similar K readings between them, the firebird is a thinner and lower output pickup than a mini.

[freefrog]

What Alex said...

The Duncan SM1 is based on the original Firebird recipe, AFAIK. If memory serves me, SM2 and SM3 host each a single magnet and a pair of ferrous blades inside their coils.
About Lace, I simply don't know. But when I see the specs in the page below, I bet for 6000 to 7000 turns of extremely thin wire (like 45AWG) per bobbin: it's far from a FB pickup, with 3 times the DCR and 1.7 times the inductance of a regular FB...
https://lacemusic.com/products/nitro...-humbucker-set

Also and FWIW: I've a SM1 b and an Epi mini-hum in an Epiphone Wilshire. I can approximate the tone of a bridge mini-hum just by lowering the tone control of the SM1 to 2/3. When I want to emulate a FB sound with the stock neck mini-hum, it's a lot more tricky: it requires a custom home made inductive filter in parallel with the pickup.
IOW, it's easier to mimic a mini hum by tweaking a FB pickup than to do the contrary. IME at least. YMMV.

[ICTGoober]

The mini-humbucker as we know was originally an Epiphone unit. It's small narrow window humbucker of traditional design, albeit scaled down from a normal sized humbucker. Under that plain cover, a Firebird pickup is actually a dual bladed pickup, and wound with less wire than most humbuckers. The result is a fairly clean sounding pickup that emphasizes the trebles, and it's narrow aperture enables it to sound like a single coil without the hum. It's pretty unique in the pickup world, and some people dig it.

[Ashurbanipal]

There's loads options these days for these pups - big companies and booteek folks make repros and interpretations thereof. So the use of different magnets and gauge wire means lots of possibilities. I'd expect that if you're buying from a reputable maker, a Firebird style pu will use the architecture associated with the type (i.e. blade magnets), while a mini hum will have ferrous poles and a bar mag. The originals used 42awg, I think (not completely sure), so you could get less winds on the bobbin, usually giving you 6-7k dcr.

In recent years Gibson have reworked the pups they put in Firebirds; back in the 90s and 00s, the regular USA line had ceramic magnets and high dcr, leading to lots of complaints about hot/muddy tones (no idea about CS); some people dug them, of course. I don't know if the newer pups are built like old ones (blade mag) or like a normal hb with the magnet underneath.

Like other types of pups, in the old days, mini hums and Firebird types weren't calibrated according to their position, so you'd find guitars which sounded good in the neck position but brittle/underpowered in the bridge.

NB: there is also the so-called 'New Yorker' pu which originally came in old Epiphones (jazz boxes and first Coronets) - it looks like a mini hum but it's a single coil. The coil in this pu is turned on its side, unlike in most pups, which are upright, accounting for the bigger footprint.

[freefrog]

Well, my first answer was intentionally limited to FB vs mini-humbuckers with a "regular" design but if we start to talk about unorthodox variations in a mini-HB frame, there's much to say and to quote...

Examples, focusing on "sidewinder" coils as mentioned by Ashurbanipal:

https://www.guitarworld.com/features...the-new-yorker

https://www.mylespaul.com/threads/di...-heavy.240651/

While I'm at it, i'll pay his due to dougie, who is an important MLP contributor when it comes to FB / mini-hum shaped HB's:

https://www.mylespaul.com/threads/fi...ibsons.270442/

I think dougie to be also the person behind this page:

http://www.heliotricity.com/firebird-pickups.html

To come back on topic, there's also a mini-hb version with 3 screw poles per coil, looking like a small "wide range" HB, but I can't find the related link right now. I think Curtis Novak had a page about it and has cancelled this page from his website...

FWIW (= the pleasure to share something). More later maybe...

[ICTGoober]

Gibson's Weirdest Guitar | What Is The Firebird Sound? - YouTube

[beaubrummels]

I believe the min-hum started life as two Melody Maker singles packed onto a P-90 plate, with one bobbin taking adjustable screws the other slugs. The firebird has blade magnets encased in wire in wax such that you can't even take the cover off without destroying the pickup. The original firebird sounds more like a Fender single coil than a mini-hum.

[Ashurbanipal]

Rhett's Firebird is pretty sweet, love the colour.

Well, my first answer was intentionally limited to FB vs mini-humbuckers with a "regular" design but if we start to talk about unorthodox variations in a mini-HB frame, there's much to say and to quote...

Examples, focusing on "sidewinder" coils as mentioned by Ashurbanipal:

https://www.guitarworld.com/features...the-new-yorker

https://www.mylespaul.com/threads/di...-heavy.240651/

While I'm at it, i'll pay his due to dougie, who is an important MLP contributor when it comes to FB / mini-hum shaped HB's:

https://www.mylespaul.com/threads/fi...ibsons.270442/

I think dougie to be also the person behind this page:

http://www.heliotricity.com/firebird-pickups.html

To come back on topic, there's also a mini-hb version with 3 screw poles per coil, looking like a small "wide range" HB, but I can't find the related link right now. I think Curtis Novak had a page about it and has cancelled this page from his website...

FWIW (= the pleasure to share something). More later maybe...

Some good info there.

That JD Simo guy, he's a good player, he might do well one of these days . Great sounding example of a FB I - articulation galore and pairs well with the normal channel of the Plexi *chef kiss*.

Mm, Novak makes a version of the New Yorker. There's a demo of an original slab body Coronet with one of those by Johan Segeborn, man what a tone !

[SirJackdeFuzz II]

Great info.

Thank you very much to every one so far . . . keep 'em coming.

[DavidRavenMoon]

I believe the min-hum started life as two Melody Maker singles packed onto a P-90 plate, with one bobbin taking adjustable screws the other slugs. The firebird has blade magnets encased in wire in wax such that you can't even take the cover off without destroying the pickup. The original firebird sounds more like a Fender single coil than a mini-hum.

Different size bobbins. The mini humbucker was in Epiphone guitars, replacing the NY pickups, which looked the same, but were single coils.

When Gibson designed their humbucker they made the Epiphone mini humbucker.

Then they put the full size humbucker in their other guitars. They had a lot of gold top bodies left over routed for P-90s that they wanted to use. Remember that to them the P-90 was old and inferior to their new humbucking pickup, not a different flavor.

So they took a P-90 plastic cover and cut a hole in it to make it a pickup ring for the mini humbucker, and the LP Deluxe was born.


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[SirJackdeFuzz II]

Different size bobbins. The mini humbucker was in Epiphone guitars, replacing the NY pickups, which looked the same, but were single coils.

When Gibson designed their humbucker they made the Epiphone mini humbucker.

Then they put the full size humbucker in their other guitars. They had a lot of gold top bodies left over routed for P-90s that they wanted to use. Remember that to them the P-90 was old and inferior to their new humbucking pickup, not a different flavor.

So they took a P-90 plastic cover and cut a hole in it to make it a pickup ring for the mini humbucker, and the LP Deluxe was born.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Thanks David

[Ashurbanipal]

Those 3x3 pole mini hums mentioned in post #6 came in some Silvertones were made by Gibson. Built like conventional hbs, with a bar mag underneath.

[zozoe]

Rhett who?

[jeremy]

rhett tyler? hes my neighbor