Help! Make a Custom TB-5 sound like a Duncan Custom DCJ ? (AKA Magnet swap magic).

[MRTHUD]

I need help to modify a Custom TB-5 to make it sound like a Duncan Custom DCJ.
Is that even possible..?

New member, so this is my first post. Hopefully its in the correct section!


Hi Guys,

Been watching the post box for almost 2mths and finally my beaut Gold covered Seymour Duncan Custom TB-5 bridge pickup just arrived here in Australia.

Many slow weeks of transit from the US.. (No ones fault.. just covid).

So today I quickly installed it and I was hoping for the fantastic full tones and great harmonics I get from my DCJ pickup that is in my Gibson LP (Norlin).

I hoped/thought the Custom TB-5 would be a modern equivalent to the DCJ. Unfortunately, it seems not.

So I’m here posting in the hope of some experienced advice on magnet swaps to try get it to sound more like my DCJ. (if that is even possible?).



Some challenges though..

The guitars I’m comparing are different.

The Duncan Custom DCJ that I love is in a Gibson Les Paul Custom 1971. (This is the target tone).

The Custom TB-5 is installed in a 1990 Jackson Rhoads Professional from Japan (Ebony fretboard, Maple through neck).

With the Custom TB-5 its currently lacking harmonics and bottom end tightness/punch (Both are important to my playing).


I also have an identical 1990’s Jackson Rhoads with a 80’s Super Distortion and it sounds great. Loads of harmonics and bottom, so I know its not the guitar wood.

I also have a Jackson KE5FR with Seymour Duncan JB and it sounds great. (So if all else fails I may just settle for another JB. What im saying is that I know Duncans and Jacksons very obviously can work perfectly together)


Of the guitars I have here (14) My fav tone is the Gibson with the DCJ… so it would be awesome if I could get the Custom TB-5 to sound like that.


But am I being unrealistic.. is it even possible to magnet swap the Custom TB-5 into the fantastic Duncan Custom 80’s tone?

If so, im guessing this is the place with the answers, so where do I start


Many thanks for any help!

kind regards,
G - from Downunder!

[beaubrummels]

Does your Jackson have a tone control? My gold TB-5 sounds better with no tone control in my Jackson. Have you ever put your DCJ in your Jackson? No two guitars are truly identical. How do you know for sure it's not to some degree related to the guitar? Different bridge hardware or tuners could make a difference also.

[Despair]

Maple neck-throughs are infamous for not having the warmth of other body woods/construction methods. And you may be comparing a 24.75" Gibson scale to a 25.5" typical of Fenders. It's hard to get same tone/feel out of different scale instruments.

Is it a floating vibrato unit? If so, you might try an oversize brass sustain block. Would help with the low end and midrange, and smooth out high end without really darkening it. If the sustain block is a particularly janky potmetal, it may actually improve the high end as well.

You might try a double thickness ceramic magnet in the TB-5 custom, to beef things up.

Another mod would be to try shorter polepiece screws (I like hex/allen head screws like are used in the Full Shred or Screamin' Demon). They would give more bite & tighter low end. Can mix and match, short screws (around 0.25" shorter than standard, some people just cut the screws, but that can be problematic if you decide to revert, as a bad screw end can chew up the bobbin's polepiece screw threads while being removed) under low strings is pretty common, particularly in neck pickups. Just make sure you match the thread ratio and size of the stock screws, or again it can chew up the threads.


Might also look at a different pickup, something like a PATB-1b Parallel Axis Original with a ceramic (or even double thickness ceramic), or A8 magnet. Would help with beefing things up a little, but might be too bright with ceramic, or too barky in mids with A8. There are some reports of them being too bright in Jackson neck-throughs, though. But it'd give more harmonics & beefed up lower end with reduced flub.

Might also look at a PATB-2b Parallel Axis Distortion, which would give you the scream of a JB or Distortion, but without the harsh presence of a Distortion. Might be less tight than what you are looking for, but if a Custom isn't doing it in the guitar. Thicker, awesome for fat riffs & gonzo metal. Should work well in the tight brightness of a maple neck-through. Absolutely insane harmonics, sustain, and output.

A Black Winter bridge pickup might be a good fit for the guitar, if the Parallel Axis look or pickup modding doesn't appeal.

[ErikH]

Honestly, I don't see how swapping a ceramic for a ceramic is gonna change anything. They don't age like Alnico magnets do. If anything, there might be a difference in the wind from when MJ did it to now but it might not be enough to make a difference. What you are most likely experiencing is a difference in the guitars themselves.

[MRTHUD]

Thanks for the prompt responses and suggestions guys.

I really like the idea of simply trying changing the screw pole pieces for shorter screws. Will start the hunt for some as a first test



To answer some of the questions:

* The Jackson has no tone control, I have set it up that way as a 2 Hum, 3-Way Toggle, 1 Vol. (Has a pleasant surprise out of phase middle, which I really like.
Its paired with a cheap Iron Gear Blues Engine in the neck. )

* It has a locking floyd rose (Which gives it something the Gibson with DCJ doesn't have)..

* The reason I mentioned that I have an identical guitar with a super distortion and it sounds good, was to imply that the wood combo (Ebony fretboard, Maple through neck) seems to be able to produce rich harmonics and lows. So the right Seymour pickup should be possible. (I dont want to install another Super Dist as I do'nt want two complete identical Jacksons).

* Although I have tried various pickups in both Jackson Rhoads guitars I have never removed and installed the DCJ (Im reluctant to mess with that Gibson guitar incase something goes wrong and I cant get it back to its current config)



The Duncan Custom DCJ is an outstanding pickup and i'm surprised that it isn't still made by SD. Is that something that only the Custom Shop supply these days?

But yes, I accept that although the DCJ sounds great in the Gibson it may not sound great in the Jackson Rhoads.

[ErikH]

The DCJ is Duncan Custom wound by MJ. That's what those letters mean. It's no different a Duncan Custom than the TB-5 is a Duncan Custom with the exception that MJ wound the DCJ and the TB-5 is trempaced where as the DCJ is not. So yes, they do still make it. You could try a SH-5 which is a standard spaced Custom. The entire pickup on a TB model is wider than a SH model. I don't care if the pole pieces line up or not.

[Aceman]

The DCJ is Duncan Custom wound by MJ.

I was so afraid to ask that. OK, here we go.

STOP IT WITH MOTHER &%$$$#@ "J" MODEL BS!!!!!!! Do you know how MJ wound JB's, and Customs, and every other damn pickup she ever wound that was a stock model? I'll tell you how:

EXACTLY THE SAME WAY EVERYONE ELSE DID - TO MOTHER *&^&*^%&$% SPEC!!!!!

There is a phrase for that: It is called Quality Control.

Have you ever seen anyone wind a pickup?
Have you ever done it?
Just stop it already. Seriously. Just stop it.
Do not support this idiocy.

Can we get MJ in here for a hot minute to explain this?

[AdrianSD]

Welcome to the forum MRTHUD The suggestion above to swap pickups between the axes is sound (sic!), it could be that the Jackson just sounds vastly different. Try both DCJ and the Super D in it to see what you should be expecting. I have a Korean FR Jackson PS4 (swapped out the original Jackson trem, well worn out, for a new 1000 series) with a JB with Alnico 8 in the bridge and it sounds fantastic. Are you in Melbourne?

[MRTHUD]

Thanks Erik, so the Custom TB-5 that I have is actually the exact same as the older Duncan Custom??
Ok, that is where I was confused. I had thought that the Custom TB-5 was Alnico 5 and the Duncan Custom wound by MJ was a Ceramic of some kind.

Thanks, that clarification helps, as it means that as im chasing the harmonics and tight bottom end that I best look at a different pickup (as some of the guys posted above).

Cheers,
G.

[Aceman]

But am I being unrealistic...

You are being superstitious, mystical, and delusional. So I'll give you an answer on that level:

1. You must get a Ceramic Magnet that was initially charged under a full moon on the 13th of the month.
2. That magnet must not have crossed the Prime Meridian or the equator in its travels to the point of assembly (All the way around the world is OK going east to get way west, but it can't cross going west to get anywhere east.)
3. You will need the feet of three chickens. They must be removed after the blood has been drained. If blood touches the feet, ruined. Now - this is important; They must have also been inseminated by the same Rooster.
4. You will need to bury the magnet in the grave of a child (less than 12yrs old)
- The magnet must be placed in a small, sealed, waterproof, ash-wood box, with 5 of the chicken feet, at least 3 feet deep over the coffin.
- It must be buried under a new moon
5. The box must be blessed by a priest prior to placing the magnet and contents inside. Just bless the box.
6 The magnet must then be removed on one of the Solstices, or equinoxes.
- It does not matter if you bury it the day before a week or a month. But it goes in the ground, and comes out on one of those 4 days.
7. Once you retrieve the box, you must take it to the house of a suspected witch or sorceress.
8. Circle the home with the box chanting the sacred word Innagaddadavida for at least 17 minutes and 3 seconds.
9. You may then swap the magnets in the TB4, using only red candles to light your workspace after dark.

That's how MJ does it.

[MRTHUD]

Hi Adrian, thanks for the welcome
No not from Melbourne. Im based a bit rural, about 1hr west from Brissy.

Aceman, lol I get the frustration with the labelling But that sticker was the only way I found out which pickup I had (Which has just fallen off and devalued the entire thing haha.) I guess it could have just had DC on it. But who knows maybe MJ liked to put a few extra winds on, or use tape on the bobbins before starting the wrap hehe.. I dont think Quality control was invented until the 90's right But it must be pretty cool for the SD employees, as its almost like signing the pickup.

[MRTHUD]

Awesome Aceman! ...but I did all that, then discovered that was the chant for a TB-4. I have a TB-5 ...dammit

[AdrianSD]

Hi Adrian, thanks for the welcome
No not from Melbourne. Im based a bit rural, about 1hr west from Brissy.

Haha, you can't be serious, you're kidding )))) Later this year we'll relocate to Brisbane / Ipswich area!

[beaubrummels]

The Duncan Custom DCJ is an outstanding pickup and i'm surprised that it isn't still made by SD. Is that something that only the Custom Shop supply these days?

But yes, I accept that although the DCJ sounds great in the Gibson it may not sound great in the Jackson Rhoads.

For the record, I have an uncovered Duncan Custom (Seymour-wound) and a new production who-knows-who-wound gold covered one and they sound the same in my Jackson. Well, uncovered is ever so slightly brighter, but just using a different cable can make them sound almost identical.

Despair had the best suggestions IMO

[eclecticsynergy]

Good advice upthread from Despair.

A vintage Custom might be ever-so-slightly sweeter than a current production TB-5 but the difference you're hearing is not in the pickups.
Those two guitars fundamentally sound nothing like each other. Totally different animals.
Maple neck-through is about as bright & stiff as it gets, especially compared to the warmth & liveliness of heavy, fifty-year-old mahogany.
Add to that longer scale length and a Floyd, which would make even a Les Paul sound very different...

Raising the new Custom as close to the strings as possible might get you a little extra chunk and grind.
A8 would smooth the highs, giving a warmer overall character with a slightly bouncier feel.
Double thick ceramic mag was a good suggestion IMO - fuller lows that are still ceramic-tight, and a little extra juice.

A 250K volume pot can sweeten things up a bit too. An often-overlooked possibility, since hums nearly always do best with 500K.

Still, I concur that a different pickup is your best path to the type of tone you're looking for.
For high output in a bright guitar, I think the Duncan Invader could be a good choice.
It's fat & aggressive yet with fairly reserved highs, as opposed to the sizzling harshness of most ceramic-powered pickups.

For body, roar and sear, the Super Distortion is a rock classic - plus, you already like its personality and you have one on hand.
Of course you should expect it won't sound exactly the same in a different guitar, even if both are Jacksons.

I'd add one more pickup suggestion: DiMarzio's The Breed.
Specifically designed to fatten thin-sounding trem guitars and bring them more into the ballpark of thick heavy bodies.
Less output than a Super D, I think. But it has fat chunk, rich vocal mids and a singing lead tone that stays thick even high up the neck.

The Breed was discontinued some years ago but you can still find NOS ones on eBay, or used.
DiMarzio makes a slightly tweaked version for the Music Man Axis, but those aren't sold separately and nobody ever pulls them.
I believe the closest current-production equivalent might be the AT-1, which also does quite well in superStrats.