Why the heck is my STHR-1B Tele hot rail so dark and flubby?

[spleenharvester]

Through the magic of 3D printing and lots of dickery I have been able to fit a Tele hot rail into the neck of my Blacktop stratocaster (yes it is the bridge version, so it's wildly unbalanced with the APH-2B in the bridge - it did used to live in the bridge but I decided I was happier with it in the neck). It used to be fantastic for thick rhythm tone when I had my AC15C1, although I was never entirely happy with that amp.




Since then I sold the AC15C1, and after a long break from playing rewired the guitar (the 5-way switch was dying) and bought a Blackstar HT1 + Sansamp 21 Classic. The APH-2B sounds killer through this combination, but the STHR-1B sounds appauling compared to how it did with the AC15C1 - it literally sounds like the tone knob has been turned off completely at max setting, to the point I thought I'd screwed up the wiring but I don't see anything wrong.

It's currently running a 500K volume pot, 500K tone pot and a 0.022uF cap I believe. I've ordered some 0.1uF caps to try on suggestion from another forum to brighten it up, but until they get here does anyone have any other ideas what could be wrong?

[hamerfan]

The STHR-1B (as for Bridge) was intended as bridge pickup, obviously. Hook it off the tone and run it in parallel mode!

[Mincer]

I think the idea of running it in parallel is a good one. Even in the bridge, it is pretty dark and flubby so in the neck, it will be even more dark and flubby. The neck Hot Rails and Bridge Hot Rails are pretty different in terms of output, and the bridge model doesn't do too well in the neck at all. If you don't have another pickup handy, run it in parallel, and it will open up.

[ArtieToo]

I've ordered some 0.1uF caps to try . . .

I assume that's a typo. 0.1uf will make it real dark. I assume you mean 0.01uf or 0.001uf.

[eclecticsynergy]

I assume that's a typo. 0.1uf will make it real dark. I assume you mean 0.01uf or 0.001uf.

He might be intending that as a series cap to cut bass, rather than a tone cap.
But perhaps he meant .01uF (or .001uF).

This case might be a good application for the famous de-mud mod!

[ArtieToo]

He might be intending that as a series cap to cut bass, rather than a tone cap.

Ah, yes. Didn't think of that.

[GuitarDoc]

I think it's safe to assume he meant the cap as a tone cap since he just finished referring to his 500k tone pot with the .022uf cap. I would also assume that it was a typo and he meant .010uf cap. I've used .010uf in a lot of my guitars.

The Hot Rails sounded great when he played it through his AC 15 (one of my favorite amps, by the way). Depending on the settings, an AC can have a lot of top end but I'm not familiar with the Blackstar. It seams to me that it has to do with your current amp settings and not the pup itself. However, if you can't dial in your amp to make it sound good, the suggestion of running your HR in parallel is a great one. That should brighten it up a lot.

[GuitarDoc]

PS: a HR bridge in the neck sounds crazy to me. That's just asking for lots of mids and mud. Again, wire in parallel to help that.

[spleenharvester]

Thanks everyone. I did mean 0.1uf for tone cap but 0.01uf might be closer to what I'm after (think I may have gotten some advice I read elsewhere upside down), I've ordered both and will have a play around. And yeah I know having a bridge HR in the neck is slightly silly lol, long story as to how it got there, I might try some P90s later on. Will have a play around with parallel in the meantime (though not sure how to wire it into my 5 way switch).

Anyway I've taken the Sansamp out of my signal pathway (been so addicted to it with my APH-2 that I just didn't think of plugging straight into the amp) and found the hot rail sounds way way more normal without it. Seems to me like the Sansamp just really, really doesn't like that pickup for whatever reason. Will have to find a different pedal for it I guess?

[freefrog]

Thanks everyone. I did mean 0.1uf for tone cap but 0.01uf might be closer to what I'm after (think I may have gotten some advice I read elsewhere upside down), I've ordered both and will have a play around. And yeah I know having a bridge HR in the neck is slightly silly lol, long story as to how it got there, I might try some P90s later on. Will have a play around with parallel in the meantime (though not sure how to wire it into my 5 way switch).

Anyway I've taken the Sansamp out of my signal pathway (been so addicted to it with my APH-2 that I just didn't think of plugging straight into the amp) and found the hot rail sounds way way more normal without it. Seems to me like the Sansamp just really, really doesn't like that pickup for whatever reason. Will have to find a different pedal for it I guess?

Download the Sansamp manual and you'll read this:

<<SansAmp --”sans” meaning “without” in French.By design,SansAmp has extremely low noise, is compact and portable , and is able to quickly and consistently reproduce a wide range of sounds for a variety of uses.>>

IOW: the Sansamp is not a normal FX pedal. It's basically an amp simulator allowing to play without amp. That's why the switches 7 and 8 are labelled "speaker edge" and "close miking""': the unit emulates a cab heard through a microphone...

When you use it as an FX pedal, you have an amp simulator plugged in a real amp. As if you played a first amp through a microphone itself plugged in a second guitar amp...

Not that it can't sound good: a local rockstar here has recorded an album like that.

And owning myself an AC15 (which was initially an amp for... accordion, if memory serves me), I see how it can work in this case : I've used mine more than once to amplify acoustic guitars so it's probably able to amplify a Sansamp a bit like a sound system would do.

Conversely, a Sansamp into a Blackstar is probably too much amp tone at once. :-)

SIDE NOTES - A Hot Rail bridge has an extremely high inductance: it's designed to be really thick sounding despite of its small size. Changing the value of the tone cap or pots won't / wouldn't solve the muddy tone and difference of output levels noticed here. As recommended by fellow members above, wiring the pickup in parallel will / would be much more efficient.
EDIT - And I write that as someone who has a Hot Rails with a series/parallel switch in one of his main stage guitars. ;-))

FWIW: just trying to help.

[GuitarDoc]

^, totally agree with all of that.

[spleenharvester]

Thanks all. Replaced the Hot Rail with a Seth Lover in the neck and it sounds miles better, really happy with it. Slightly prefer the neck position + Sansamp to my Soul Food (not that it doesn't have its place!).

[GuitarDoc]

Did you even try the Hot Rails in parallel?

[spleenharvester]

Nope as I couldn't figure out how to do it with my five-way switch while still retaining my split coil options (I rather love my split coil setup and I'm not smart enough to make my own wiring schematic!). That and I just liked the look of the Seth Lover anyway, entirely possible parallel could have helped.