Stacked P90 vs P-Rail

[fretburner]

I've read that neither sounds like a true P90...

But which one is closer?

I like the midrange of a P90 but I hate the noise, hence, I've been thinking my next guitar will have a stacked P90.

Then I thought maybe I should just get a typical humbucker guitar and drop some P-Rails in it and "deal" with the noise as needed in the P90 "mode" while be noisefree if I don't really need a P90 sound by running both coils.

I used to have 2 P90 guitars (Gibson LP Tribute) but changed the 2nd one to Dimarzio PG13s. Love them both.


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[uOpt]

P-90s are more difficult to make noise-free than Fender pickups. The original construction has the magnet at the bottom and passively magnetic polepieces. So the trick of cutting the actively magnetic polepieces in a Fender pickup doesn't work.

It might be more satisfying to mess with the P-Rails. But prepare to need a series/parallel switch. The coils in series are very heavyweight.

[Aceman]

Um - the P90 in a P-Rails is a Vintage P90. What do you mean it "doesn't sound" like a P90?

It is, when in P90 mode, most definitely a P90. It may be quieter because of proximity to the single rail. And of course, in series, it is hum bucking.

[ThreeChordWonder]

It isn't really a Vintage P90. Rather, it's a P90 style pickup squashed into the space of half a humbucker.

[Aceman]

It isn't really a Vintage P90. Rather, it's a P90 style pickup squashed into the space of half a humbucker.

OK - I have a PRails and a Vintage P90 right now.

Yes - it is slightly smaller than the "only" P90. it isn't "half size." Whatever. It sounds like a P90. Listen with your ears - not your eyes. Your ears may vary.

If it has to be a "P90" then only a Gibson is good enough" so go get a Gibson.

[GuitarDoc]

Ace, I actually like the sound of the P-90 in a P-Rail better than a Gibson P-90. To my ears it has more character. But you're right, in any case (even if it is slightly smaller than a single P-90), your ears will tell you it IS a P-90. TCW likes to exaggerate a bit.

[ThreeChordWonder]

^ FWIW I tried a set of P-Rails in my SG. Didnt like them, but each to his or her own, of course.

Here's a set of SD P90s in a DIY thinline I built:

[GuitarDoc]

That's great that you have your preferences for sound, tone, pups, etc. We all have our personal likes and dislikes. That's wonderful. Just don't like when you make rash statements that aren't true, like it really isn't a P-90 or that it's half the size of a humbucker.

By the way, I love that guitar (don't care for the pickguard at all, however). Ash?

[ThreeChordWonder]

^ Totally agree, beauty in the eye (ior in this case possibly ear) of the beholder and all that.

A "proper" P90 coil is physically bigger than the P90 coil squashed into half a humbucker (the rail taking up the other half) in a P-Rail.

If you look at the dimensions you'll see the P90 coil in a real P90 is about 3 inches long x 1.25 inches wide x 3/8 inch high. In a P-Rail the P90 coil is about 2-1/2 x 7/8 x 1/2. Subtle maybe, but pickup design is all about subtle differences. Which is why SD, etc. are in business.

There's also quite a few "purists" here who've posted up that the P-Rails P90 coil "doesn't really sound like a P90". I'm not experienced enough to be able to agree or disagree with that notion. All I know is I didn't like the P-Rails in my SG. I sold them on and fitted Whole Lotta Humbuckers instead.

As for that body, alder with a 1/4 inch-ish solid (not veneer) swamp ash top. Stained black then immediately wiped off to pop the grain, then a "wipe on wipe off" Minwax red mahogany stain treatment, then Minwax wipe on poly over. Solid rosewood neck, SD P90s with black covers and pickup rings. Fender slotted tuners, DIY electronics with a Switchcraft 3-way toggle in the upper bout.

The pickguard is a cut-back regular thinline pickguard. The pickguard shape was determined by the wire and control pocket routing holes in the front face that the body came with. I would have preferred a plain top, control cavity on the back, but I couldn't find one I could afford at the time. The Color? That's purely subjective, of course.

[ThreeChordWonder]

PS that photo is a work in progress. Nothing was screwed down at that stage.

Here's the final version.

[jeremy]

is there a gap between the b and g saddles or it just looks like that in the pic?

a real p90 bobbin in bigger than the prails p90 side bobbin, but if you look at a real p90, theres a lot of extra space on the bobbin. i like the p90 coil of the prails a lot

[Aceman]

OK - before you say "Half the size of a Humbucker" again - get out a ruler and measure one. Then shut up, because you are wrong.

The rail is a thin rail like half of a dual blade made for a single coil size. The P90 is distinctly larger than a single coil, or "half a humbucker"

And, as Jeremy said, a 'real' P90 has considerable space available. I know this because I took off covers and swapped them.

[GuitarDoc]

A "proper" P90 coil is physically bigger than the P90 coil squashed into half a humbucker (the rail taking up the other half) in a P-Rail.

You see, this is what I'm talking about. You exaggerate and make rash statements that have absolutely no basis in fact, just to make your point. In actuality, the Rail coil is about 25% of the total width of a P-Rail and the P-90 coil is about 75%. Not "half".

If you look at the dimensions you'll see the P90 coil in a real P90 is about 3 inches long x 1.25 inches wide x 3/8 inch high. In a P-Rail the P90 coil is about 2-1/2 x 7/8 x 1/2.

The point was made that you are measuring the outer dimensions of the bobbins, which doesn't directly relate to the sound of the pup, and not the actual coil wind sizes which does.

The actual coil winding size of a P-90 is about: L=3 1/32", W=1 1/32"
P-90 coil of a P-Rail: L=2 3/4", W=3/4"
The heights are about the same.

There's also quite a few "purists" here who've posted up that the P-Rails P90 coil "doesn't really sound like a P90".

Now THAT'S valid. Sound/hearing is subjective. There are also many who say that it DOES sound like a P-90. It's ok to say "it doesn't sound like a P-90 to me", but it's not ok to say "It isn't really a Vintage P90".
There are also many who will say that a "Lil" humbucker sounds just like its big brother, even though it isn't even close to the same size in any of its dimensions.

I'm not experienced enough to be able to agree or disagree with that notion. All I know is I didn't like the P-Rails in my SG.

Again, that is a perfectly valid statement of your opinion.

[ThreeChordWonder]

So only 9/32nds (about 9%) shorter and 9/32nds (about 27% narrower) then.

And forgive me if I'm wrong, but measuring the outside dimensions of something usually gives a pretty good indication of the maximum inside dimensions. Hence the old pipeliner's joke "When inspecting pipe, ensure the outside diameter is greater than the inside diameter. If not your pipe is inside out".

[GuitarDoc]

It's good to insure that your pipes are not inside out.