Considering a set of PAF-types for my Epi?

[Rex_Rocker]

As you know, I posted a thread about wanting a metal pickup for my Epiphone 1959. I've not made up my mind yet, but the thought crossed me: What if go completely left field? What if I went for traditional Les Paul pickups?

I mean, after all, the Epi just plain doesn't sound as good as my Gibson when using the same pickups. But what if I make it sound so different, it doesn't matter that it doesn't sound as loud, fat, and growly. Just throwing some thoughts here.

So I was wondering what you guys suggest I look at.

For the bridge, I basically want a '59B with more output, LOL. But that same EQ curve. Agressive, sizzling highs with lots of spank and snarl but that still sound like Alnico and not raspy like Ceramic. Scooped lower mids for clarity, and a firm bottom-end. I mean, after all, I'll be playing metal in it. I basically want the hardest-rocking PAF type. I used to have a WLH, and I was kind of underwhelmed with that. It was nice and all, but it didn't have the width of the '59. It was more expensive than the '59, but didn't sound more expensive at all. Just different, and not in the way I'd want a PAF to be. If I want mids, I'd just go for a hot wind, then. The hotter output was nice, though. I also don't want to go as far as 10K DCR because I feel that might compromise the airiness/twanginess that the '59 has.

I'm looking at the Suhr SSV, DiMarzio Fortitude, and maybe Fishman Classics. I've had the Classics, but never really payed much attention to the PAF voicing before. I don't know anything about the Suhr SSV. I like that the DiMarzio Fortitude was actually designed with metal in mind, but I fear the Virtual Vintage and Airbucker thing might actually bring it further away than what I want.

I wish there was a Burstbucker 3 Pro, LOL. Because I really liked the BB Pro I had before as well. I just thought it was kinda thin and weak compared to the '59.

For the neck, I basically want a louder DiMarzio 36th Anniversary PAF. I love how that pickup sounded. Warm, smooth, and fat, but never muddy. Not as scooped, boomy, or attacky as the '59N. However, I thought the output was so mellow even compared to the '59B.

I'm 100% sure I want A5 for the bridge for the healthy otutput and aggressive highs. I can have A2 in the neck, but A5 is fine too as long as it's not as attacky or boomy as the '59N.

I need potted since I'll be playing high-gain

Also, no magnet swap suggestions, please. Since I'm buying new, I'd rather just drop the pickups in and not have to mess with them.

I'm not paying more than 150 bucks per pickup when a Duncan '59 sounds so good for so little. So yeah, no Lollar Imperials for me. Come to think of it, I'd be OK with paying lower-end boutique prices for the bridge pickup more than the neck pickup because I'm certainly going to get more mileage from it. So yeah, no boutique for the neck pickup, please.

Thanks!

[beaubrummels]

59B with more output is a Custom 5, but keeping it ~10k ballpark, perhaps a 59/Custom or 78 Model (I wouldn't be too rigid about magnets, the 78 for one doesn't sound like an A2 pickup, it's tight and bright). Another alternate bridge might be a Screamin' Demon. If it's too bright or missing anything in the lower frequencies, I think just swapping the allen heads for regular filisters might fix it. (Truth in advertising, I haven't personally done this with the Demon, but I have with other pickups and heard the effect, so I predict it would work reasonably here also.)

FWIW I don't know that I'm convinced 10k is the line where airy goes away. I've played 8.5-9.0k PAF types that sounded clogged and congested and I've played 14k pickups that sounded open and bright (little bit of twang, but not so much); for example, pickups with mismatched coils sound more open and airy regardless of output, so YMMV.

I don't have any experience with Suhr and limited experience with DMZ. I have the 36th PAF neck, so I know what you are talking about there. Alternate pickups to that I can think of have differences in clarity and EQ but similar output (Pearly, Jazz, A2P). The only one I can think of that is louder is the WLH neck, which IME is in between a 59 /. Pearly Gates, but louder and slightly warmer; but you said you weren't impressed with those.

[Rex_Rocker]

I did not have the WLH neck, TBH. Just the bridge. But yeah, WLH neck might be nice.

The Hybrid might be a cool option as well.

Come to think of it, the regular Custom might not be far off. Definitely not the Custom 5, because I find that pickup soooooo bassy, and not dark, but definitely not airy either. And I haven't particularly liked the Custom in the past, but that's because I've always judged it comparing it to other high-output pickups. But maybe if I see it more as a PAF on steroids, I can appreciate it more.

In that case, is there anything that's sorta like a Custom Neck? Because if I'm going that route, I'd want a PAF-plus in the neck, rather than regular PAF.

[Ascension]

What your describing in the neck nails my experience with the Sentient. Fatter than the Jazz but not as boomy as the 59 with a killer singing woman tone it's my absolute favorite neck Humbucker from Duncan. To bad it can only be gotten now in Zebra as a floor custom and is marketed as only a metal pickup. Have had several paired with a Hybrid, JB, Alt 8 Custom 5 and a Perpetual Burn at some point.
This is a Sentient with a Alt8 running together through my little PRS MT 15 on the clean side and pushed with a Wampler Belle.

[GuitarDoc]

If you've already got the WLH (b), use that in the neck.

But if you've got your heart set on buying a new pup several really great neck pups that give you what you want are Demon, Jazz (b). Yes, those are typically bridge pups, but they have clarity, not "muddy", no booming bass, great top end without the "raspy" edge of a ceramic pup, similar tone to the 59 but with more output (before you guys rag on me for saying they have the same tone as a 59, I said "similar", no, not the same, but in the ballpark).

For the bridge, what you describe as what you want is exactly the Custom 5 ("For the bridge, I basically want a '59B with more output"). And it is perhaps one of the most versatile bridge pups you can get. Your description of your experience with the C5..."Definitely not the Custom 5, because I find that pickup soooooo bassy, and not dark, but definitely not airy either" is not at all like mine! But if you are afraid to give it another chance, you might consider the 59/Custom hybrid for the bridge.

[Mincer]

I think you got it already- either a Hybrid or a Custom, but I'd lean toward the Hybrid.

[Rex_Rocker]

What your describing in the neck nails my experience with the Sentient. Fatter than the Jazz but not as boomy as the 59 with a killer singing woman tone it's my absolute favorite neck Humbucker from Duncan. To bad it can only be gotten now in Zebra as a floor custom and is marketed as only a metal pickup.

Oh, a Sentient for the neck! Good idea! Thanks! Those can be had with a nickel cover, right? I mean, without having to custom order it.

[Rex_Rocker]

If you've already got the WLH (b), use that in the neck.

But if you've got your heart set on buying a new pup several really great neck pups that give you what you want are Demon, Jazz (b). Yes, those are typically bridge pups, but they have clarity, not "muddy", no booming bass, great top end without the "raspy" edge of a ceramic pup, similar tone to the 59 but with more output (before you guys rag on me for saying they have the same tone as a 59, I said "similar", no, not the same, but in the ballpark).

For the bridge, what you describe as what you want is exactly the Custom 5 ("For the bridge, I basically want a '59B with more output"). And it is perhaps one of the most versatile bridge pups you can get. Your description of your experience with the C5..."Definitely not the Custom 5, because I find that pickup soooooo bassy, and not dark, but definitely not airy either" is not at all like mine! But if you are afraid to give it another chance, you might consider the 59/Custom hybrid for the bridge.

I don't have the WLH-B anymore. I sold it waaaaaaaaay back. All of my PAF experience comes from trying a bunch a couple of years ago when I had the PAF craze everyone was having for high-gain, LOL. I do remember stumbling into something magical with the '59B/36th Anni, though. I had them in an Ibanez RGA121 wired to a single 250K volume for the bridge, 500K for the neck, no tone.

The Custom 5 is a relatively recent thing, tho. I bought a used PRS SE which someone had already dropped a Custom in there. Tried the Custom. Didn't love it. Tried to magnet swap it to an A5 to see if I'd like it better. I liked it less, LOL. I then yanked it out and got a Black Winter, and was much happier. But by that time, I admit I was trying to get away from the PAF thing as much as I could.

But yeah, the 'Hybid does seem like a good option as well. TBH, I kinda like the idea of it better than the regular Ceramic Custom.

[Rex_Rocker]

I think you got it already- either a Hybrid or a Custom, but I'd lean toward the Hybrid.

Yeah. I'm going to be researching the 'Hybrid a bit more. Definitely looks like a cool pickup. What would you go for in the neck with it, though? I was thinking maybe a Pearly Gates Bridge? A Slash Neck? An A2P Bridge?

As far as PAF's (and pickups in general), I tend to like a bright bridge pickup with a fierce attack, and a rounder/warmer neck pickup but that's not too bassy to keep the clarity. I also like a hotter neck pickup thatn most, but that's not going to overpower the bridge either.

How about a Hybrid/Hybrid combo?

[Mincer]

Yeah. I'm going to be researching the 'Hybrid a bit more. Definitely looks like a cool pickup. What would you go for in the neck with it, though? I was thinking maybe a Pearly Gates Bridge? A Slash Neck? An A2P Bridge?

As far as PAF's (and pickups in general), I tend to like a bright bridge pickup with a fierce attack, and a rounder/warmer neck pickup but that's not too bassy to keep the clarity. I also like a hotter neck pickup thatn most, but that's not going to overpower the bridge either.

How about a Hybrid/Hybrid combo?

Depends on what you want out of a neck pickup. I like the Alnico II Pro, but a 59 or Jazz is a good choice, too.

[Rex_Rocker]

Depends on what you want out of a neck pickup. I like the Alnico II Pro, but a 59 or Jazz is a good choice, too.

Certainly not a '59 or Jazz. I don't want a bright neck pickup with lots of attack.

I like what A2 does to neck pickups. Not to bridge ones, but neck ones, yummy. The thing is they also tend to be lower output, so I might need to go for a hotter wind to match the Hybrid's heavier wind and stronger magnet.

[ArtieToo]

. . . and a Perpetual Burn at some point.

In the top 2 or 3 of my favorite Duncans of all time. Clean, clear, and punchy. Worth a look. (Listen?)

[EmiAba]

Recently I removed my old 59n from one of my Les Paul in favor of a Pearly Gates. Aceman, in one of his thread, considered the pearly gates as the ultimate neck pick up for a Les Paul. I need to admit that he is right. After playing it for a while, I am asking why I haven't tried it before. So my advice for the neck slot is the PGn. For the bridge, do you want to consider a screaming demon? The perpetual burn is a great pickup but it sounds far from a PAF to my ears. And I feel the same with the hybrid and the C5

[Mincer]

Certainly not a '59 or Jazz. I don't want a bright neck pickup with lots of attack.

I like what A2 does to neck pickups. Not to bridge ones, but neck ones, yummy. The thing is they also tend to be lower output, so I might need to go for a hotter wind to match the Hybrid's heavier wind and stronger magnet.

You don't need a hotter neck pickup to match the Hybrid in output. My Alnico II Pro matches the Hybrid exactly.

[Rex_Rocker]

You don't need a hotter neck pickup to match the Hybrid in output. My Alnico II Pro matches the Hybrid exactly.

Oh! Alright. Maybe Hybrid/A2P or Pearly Gates, then.