Just Installed a PATB-1 & PA-STK1n

[dr_m]

Just installed the PATB bridge humbucker and stacked SC neck into my guitar but have a question. Here's a picture of the pickguard. There's a 5-way selector switch, volume, tone, and a 2-way toggle for coil-splitting. First, here's the wiring and some details on the original bridge humbucker wiring.

1. BARE and WHITE to vol pot
2. RED wire to 5-way selector
3. GREEN & BLACK to 2-way toggle

Everything is working fine and the coil-splitting seems to work except there's just one subtle thing I can't figure out. I don't know if it has something to do with the resistor but it just seems like there's a very mild softening of the high-end. I have the PATB-1 bridge & neck in a very similar guitar and they seem to have a touch more high-end bite. This is the first time I've used the PA-STK1n but the treble edge is also slightly subdued. When I split coils, it brings back the familiar edge but of course less output. I have similar 250k pots in the other guitar so I don't think it's that unless Alpha pots sound darker than CTS. The only think I can tell that might be a factor is that I typically use Sozo .047, but I think these are Mallory caps maybe. I already reassembled and put new strings so I can't look at them for a while. It's really not much of an issues so I'm fine with it until another string change but I'd like to know about a couple of things.

1. Suggested wiring for the installed switch & toggle
2. Capacitors & tone - assuming same .047 (except perhaps 250v vs say 500v)
3. Do Alpha pots sound darker than CTS?

I've done a LOT of pickup installs, magnet-swapping, etc. but am no electronics tech by any means, so maybe these are dumb questions. In any case, please explain whatever you think is relevant. Thanks.

[Mikelamury]

As I just learned a very similar lesson - it's because it's on a different guitar, even if it was the same model different wood will sound slightly different, I just asked the same thing when I switched a set of pickups from one Les Paul to another. Really easiest way to compensate is EQ somewhere.

[Mincer]

Welcome to the forum!

Can you verify the wiring to the switches is correct? SD's wire colors are different (there is no standardization here), so the first thing is to make sure everything is working the way it is supposed to.

[dr_m]

Welcome to the forum!

Can you verify the wiring to the switches is correct? SD's wire colors are different (there is no standardization here), so the first thing is to make sure everything is working the way it is supposed to.

Thanks, and yes. I bought them brand new and used the wiring diagram from the inserts. However, one thing I noticed about the bridge is that it works almost exactly the same but switching the green wire with black - I think, but can't remember because I was experimenting a lot. It reminded me little of a P-Rails out of phase (am I saying that right?) where it's like a beefed up P-90 with a real nice top end, however, it sounded anemic with the toggle switched so I stuck with the standard coil-split wiring.

The reason I asked for wiring suggestions is because there must have been at least 4 ways to wire it to the toggle, switch, using red & white vs taping them off, etc. I'm assuming the coil-split diagram is correct as it sounds like it but I'm not good enough at electronics to fully understand the toggle, 5-way, and the wires they bridged certain poles with, and so on.

As far as I can tell, everything sounds right except a slightly subdued high end. It sort of sounds like the tone knob is at 8 or 8.5 even though it's wide open on 10. It's a subtly dulled treble edge. It's not a problem but l like having a slightly bright tone I can dial back a click or two.

Ah yes, I should have mentioned that I felt the same way about the stock pickups also. Also, I have SS and EVO frets on all except this one and another guitar. This is an alder body FGN strat with silver/nickel fret wire, and my other strat with the same fret wire is an ash body. I did take into consideration the bit of sizzle that ash imparts and weigh against the sizzle imparted by SS frets but I don't think it's that nuanced because it's more of a feel thing - where the high end is essentially there but it sort of feels like there's a slight resistance in dynamics.

It's sort of like the same difference when you turn the mids way up on an amp vs a more scooped EQ curve. Mids tend to have a chewier feel and scooped readily gives up treble response. Well, that's what it seems like to me as best as I can articulate.

[beaubrummels]

Just installed the PATB bridge humbucker and stacked SC neck into my guitar but have a question. Here's a picture of the pickguard. There's a 5-way selector switch, volume, tone, and a 2-way toggle for coil-splitting. First, here's the wiring and some details on the original bridge humbucker wiring.

1. BARE and WHITE to vol pot
2. RED wire to 5-way selector
3. GREEN & BLACK to 2-way toggle

For a Duncan,

1. Green and Bare would go to ground (back of the vol. pot)
2. Black to the 5-way pickup selector switch
3. Red+White to the 2-way coil split toggle

Everything is working fine and the coil-splitting seems to work except there's just one subtle thing I can't figure out. I don't know if it has something to do with the resistor but it just seems like there's a very mild softening of the high-end. I have the PATB-1 bridge & neck in a very similar guitar and they seem to have a touch more high-end bite. This is the first time I've used the PA-STK1n but the treble edge is also slightly subdued. When I split coils, it brings back the familiar edge but of course less output. I have similar 250k pots in the other guitar so I don't think it's that unless Alpha pots sound darker than CTS. The only think I can tell that might be a factor is that I typically use Sozo .047, but I think these are Mallory caps maybe. I already reassembled and put new strings so I can't look at them for a while. It's really not much of an issues so I'm fine with it until another string change but I'd like to know about a couple of things.

First, I didn't see a resistor in your wiring. It's not clear to me if you are saying you wired the neck stack to split? I wouldn't do that. All it's going to do is either introduce 60hz buzz when split, or dramatically drop the volume and add noise if you split to the lower hum-cancelling coil. Also, the tone cap doesn't have anything to do with the differences in split coil sound. It sounds like you are conflating two or three things and I'm not following what's going on in the actual guitar.

1. Suggested wiring for the installed switch & toggle

I'd keep the wiring scheme you have, just make sure the right wire colors for Duncan are connected to the right lugs and grounds.

2. Capacitors & tone - assuming same .047 (except perhaps 250v vs say 500v)

A guitar doesn't have any high voltage in it, so you don't need hundreds of voltage capacity in any component. 047uF is a standard in Strat types. No need to change it unless it's doesn't sound right to you when rolled off.

3. Do Alpha pots sound darker than CTS?

The brand won't change whether the pot sounds darker, but the actual value will. If the Alpha pots are 20% tolerance and CTS are 10% tolerance, then there's a big chance you could have an Alpha pot that is a much lower value in comparison and would sound darker. But it has nothing to do with the brand. It has to do with the actual value of the pot when measured with a meter.

[dr_m]

LOL. Indeed, I meant "capacitor" but had "resistor" at my lips for some reason. Duh! Anyway...

That's the wiring I used on the bridge so that can be ruled out. I played the guitar again for a couple of hours last night and think the PA-STK1n neck is relatively darker, bassier sounding so I'm wondering if it's just a darker sounding pickup because I'm pretty sure the wiring is correct since I only had to solder to the selector and vol pot to replicate how the original pickup was installed. The original pickup is a single-coil, not hum-cancelling, so I assumed just taping off red & white and doing the standard wiring diagram would be correct. If not, please let me know what the suggested wiring is for this setup.

One thing that I changed last night helped and that was carefully adjusting pickup height. I'm rather picky about pickup height as I like a very particular feel and tone from guitar to guitar. The PATB-1 seems best about 2.25 mm from high E and 3.5 mm from low E (at 22nd fret). With the PA-STK1n, it seems best about 2.75 mm and 3.75 mm respectively.

This video was the first good demo of the PA-STK1N that I found. You'll notice that when he switches from bridge to neck, he retains a sort of high end chirp and strattiness that sounds balanced relative to the bridge. Granted, he's using a PATB-3 which has a different EQ curve than the PATB-1 but >'d consider both models in the slighly brighter category than say a JB or Super Distortion. To my ears, his amp tone seems to sit in between a recording tone and pratice tone, so a little fat but cutting perhaps, so it seems to represent the pickup's tone well. When I go to my PA-STK1n, it sounds more subdued, fatter, warmer and lacks the the stratty, hollow, edge you can hear in his tone - less chirpy, blander.

Even though I don't know exactly what I'm doing all the time and never had any instruction, I've installed probably 150 pickups over the years. This issue however is a bit perplexing. If it's not my wiring, I suspect the pots or that capacitor may have something to do with it but it just seems like the effect of pot tolerance would be less significant. I don't know, maybe it's just the way the pickup sounds. Seymour Duncans are very consistent but could it be I just got a darker sounding one, or has the winding changed somehow in the past few years? I doubt any of that but I guess you never know.

[eclecticsynergy]

PA-STK is not quite as bright as a traditional singlecoil. It also has slightly smoother attack, which the ear perceives as being less trebly.
Still has a singlecoil-ish character, but a bit less of that percussive bell tone.

It should still be more singlecoily than a PATB-1n though.
Even so, as mentioned, every guitar is different.
Two guitars that seem identical can sound as different as night and day.

[dr_m]

PROBLEM SOLVED!! So I got frustrated and just replaced all the electronics and rewired the whole thing from scratch. It's sounding much better now so not sure what it was. I have an identical guitar with the same wiring and it's just fine. At this point I just want to play so just going to leave this issue behind.