Playing in a two guitar band?!?!

[papersoul]

Hi guys, It looks like I may be joining up with a new band that is a great departure from my normal style. I tend to lean toward heavy and heavier, not to mention mostly modern. I was the primary guitarist in the last band other than the singer/guitarists few parts on specific songs.

This new band which is rather light rock to plain old rock wth a female singer already has 9 songs complete. The band consists of singer, bassist, drummer, backup singer/percussionist, and two guitarists including me. I was asked to come in and add to the tunes. Some of the songs have leads and fills but many are wide open.

I wrote lead parts and fills for the first song on their CD. I am not sure what else to do for these songs other than leads, fills, and doubling his rhythm maybe playing the chords in other positions or with a different tone. They did mention they are fine with me adding a little heavier edge on some tunes and in fact want that on specific songs.

Any thoughs, advice?

Thanks,
ps

[Nightburst]

Re: Playing in a two guitar band?!?!

Man this is a great opportunity to live yourself out!
You can actually put your stamp on this band by giving the hard edge to it. It can also be a learning experience to learn about yourself, your sound and what you're capable of.
Nothing beats that 'wall of sound' you get when playing some rythem parts with double guitars.
Also a good lead part in a song is like a breath of freash air, it can liven up a song and add a new dimension.

I play in a band with 2 guitarsist and though the other guy is mostly a lead player and I'm a rythem player/singer we do the occasional double guitar parts where we interact a lot, exchanging solo's and leads. Fun, fun, fun! You guys should try that.

Good luck!

[nuntius]

Re: Playing in a two guitar band?!?!

yeah, heres an ass but it'll add to the band

learn the caged system of chords.

bassically what it is is barring the C A G E and D chords anywhere on the neck, to get different inversions of the same chord.

for example, E could be played with a D chord barred on the second fret, using your first finger, and the other 3 to make the D shape

its hard to begin with as those fingers arent used to making those shapes, but it can add something sometimes.

also learn the scale in 3rds, ie G scale would be 3rd fret E 2nd fret A... 5th fret E 3rd Fret A

learn that across all the scales.

make sure you know exactly what chords your other guitarist is playing, and maybe play the same chord but add a note, like a ninth or something , but thats something you'll have to figure when it fits or not

[nuntius]

Re: Playing in a two guitar band?!?!

hmm yeah wall of guitar is awesome sometimes!

if you record make sure your both on different speakers though.

if you want you could make the songs heavier but i think it'd make you better as a player if you adapted to the style of the band more, it'd make you a more versitile musician to be able to add this kinda music to your reportoir

[papersoul]

Re: Playing in a two guitar band?!?!

Thanks guys! I know the CAGED system well, but I actually started going back to my theory books when joinging the band but it was little help. I swear theory does very little for when it comes to writing songs and fils/leads. I wrote the lead over the chorus and I swear it makes little sense on the fretboard but sound perfect in the song context.

I actually find the "D" form the hardest to bar and hit all the notes.

You lost me on the scale in 3rds thing. Could you explain?

[korovamilkdud]

Re: Playing in a two guitar band?!?!

No end to the flexibility a second guitarist can bring to a band. Layered parts, wall of sound: and you sound like you already know how occupy a different space from the other guitarist- so I think you'll do great!

[nuntius]

Re: Playing in a two guitar band?!?!

well i'm assuming since you know theory you will know about key signatures.

what i mean is playing a note along with the third above it, so if you were playing in C major and you hit a C, you'd play an E also

ok taking that G example, G has an F# in it, really on the guitar it makes no difference because your playing with shapes, and not black and white keys like a piano

so it'd be G + B, A + C, B + D, C + E, D + F# ... etc.

er, crap explanation... i'll try and record a clip of what i mean tonight if i get the chance.

it sounds not so great in my explanaition but it can be used to a good effect

[papersoul]

Re: Playing in a two guitar band?!?!

Tuntius, I actually little to know theory but dabble in books from time to time.....I just don't retain theory well. I am still confused on the scale in thrids or chords in thirds thing. I understand what a 3rd is in relation to the scale....as in third not in the scale?

[nuntius]

Re: Playing in a two guitar band?!?!

Tuntius? lol sunds like a disease

Well all major and minor chords are made up of triads.

there is the root (first note of the scale) 3rd (3rd note of the scale) and 5 th (5th note of the scale)

what i mean by playing in thirds is only playing the first and third notes of each chord, in relation to the Key.

also, a triad will work in any configuration to offer different voices - ie

Root 3rd 5th

5th Root 3rd

3rd Root 5th.

its all the same chord but has a different voicing due to the different bass note, so you can use that as well.

dont worry my theory is crap also, i have trouble remembering which key signatures have which sharps/flats

[papersoul]

Re: Playing in a two guitar band?!?!

Okay, I got ya on the triad thing...but you lost me here:

Root 3rd 5th

5th Root 3rd

3rd Root 5th.

[nuntius]

Re: Playing in a two guitar band?!?!

no worries man.

ok G chord is made up 3 notes

Root - G

3rd - B

5th - D

and so on

(1st, 3rd and 5 th notes in the scale)

[papersoul]

Re: Playing in a two guitar band?!?!

I see what ya mean, I could play the same chord in different configurations, etc. With the two note thing, you meant I could take the root and 3rd ni the chord and just play those two notes for example?

I come from a drop C# heavy world and this band has a lot of roots in folk and roots rock......but think Natalie Merchant with a rock band behind her - little harder than her music.

Anyway, these guys want to stay in standard tuning so I won't have my guitars in Eb or C# any longer.

The guitarist plays many songs using a capo and I am just in standard tuning minus the capo. I also mentioned Eb tuning or maybe just me, but the singer won't go for it.

Most of the songs are very simple in terms of rhythm....basic two, three, and four chord progressions.....basic as it gets so there is a lot of room to breathe and work. That is what I am doing because otherwise I'd get bored.

Am I moving too slow though? We jammed once just to get a feel for one another and since then I have been listending to the 8 song CD as I did before we jammed. I have had a about a week working on the first song and I am just about complete on what I want to do....now it is on to song two. They have to uderstand this band and style is new to me so I can't just nail 8 tunes in a few weeks with all my fills/leads/rhythm parts worked out. I told them it will take time and evolve.

The main guitarist was a little put off initially because he thought I was going to roll in and just be up to spead and ripping off licks and fills left and right. I am not an improvisor and usually need time to study the song and find where I can fir and what fits. Is this weird?? Am I weird in my style? I would suck in a jam band. LOL.

[mjsever]

Re: Playing in a two guitar band?!?!

I swear theory does very little for when it comes to writing songs and fils/leads. I wrote the lead over the chorus and I swear it makes little sense on the fretboard but sound perfect in the song context.

This is the absolute truth. I went from being the only guitarist in a band to being the lead guy (similar situation) for a band that had great songs, but their guitarist wasn't good enough to pull off a trio. So I came in, added solos where needed, and filled out a bunch of songs quickly by doing some arpeggiating to the singer's strumming and playing different chord voicings.

However, I found myself falling into a pattern of applying that same formula to each song and after a while all songs started to sound the same. So I had to figure out how to break this pattern, and find more interesting parts to play. I had a harder time doing this than I ever did with CAGED, modes, chord inversions, or any technique. It became more about feel and listening than theory, which are totally unrelated. This is why some of the best songwriters I know really aren't that good at guitar, but they have a good ear for what works. Unfortunately I became too cerebral about it and had to ignore the mind and trust my ear more.

To get out of the habit, I started listening to the songs, adding hooks and subtle lead lines to try and give the listener more to pick out. I think the guy from Coldplay has this nailed- he REALLY knows how to fill a song out and make it sound interesting over a strummed chord progression. I'm still working on this, but I am getting better at it. It's one more thing to learn, and it's this continual learning that has kept guitar interesting for me over the last 20 years.

[TwilightOdyssey]

Re: Playing in a two guitar band?!?!

Oh no, another stream of 'do you need to know theory to write songs' posts.

The answer is YES!!! Whether you consciously acknowlege or not, you're bowing to the rules of theory every time you play your instrument.

[nuntius]

Re: Playing in a two guitar band?!?!

Oh no, another stream of 'do you need to know theory to write songs' posts.

The answer is YES!!! Whether you consciously acknowlege or not, you're bowing to the rules of theory every time you play your instrument.

true.

unless your going for a guitar slinging picasso approach