Tips for writing solo's/improvising (scales)

[devilfish]

Hi,

I'm starting to write my own solos more and more now, but i keep playing the same sort of patterns when I'm soloing at all. Which is really annoying because obviously, they all sound the same.

I've basically been writing around the minor pentatonic sclae as I'm playing over rock backing most of the time but don't know what else to progress onto.

Anybody got links to websites or online videos that show you excersises and scale techniques that will give me some kind of starting point for writing better and molre interesting solos?

I seem to be improvising but always doing the same things so i want to learn some more scales to know what notes i can play when im soloing over, sometihng like a backing track in the key of E. I'm having trouble with hitting the wrong notes, what scales should i be learning that can help me learn what notes i can play and what notes sound like crap in one solo?

Thanks

[Pink Unicorn Horsey]

Re: Tips for writing solo's/improvising (scales)

This isn't directing you to any online videos or anything, but try listening to sax or trumpet solos by great jazz musicians, and learn what's going on there. Then you can apply it to your own solos.

- Keith

[Tele-Bob]

Re: Tips for writing solo's/improvising (scales)

As a suggestion, I would start playing your major scale. Learn it all over the neck and then pick out the forms that feel best to play from. You're in a common rut that most guitar palyers find themselves in because someone taught them the pent minor scale to "help" them get going. It does more damage than good in the long run.

If you'd care to take on a little more intensive approach, you can look at the notes in the chords you're soloing over and find all the common notes. From there you create a scale that covers the chord changes and everything is cool.

The pent minor is good for bluesy, funky, rockin' solos but at some point in our lives we're all called upon to play something tasteful. Learn and embarce the tones of the major scale. The answers to all of your questions stem from those 7 notes.

[devilfish]

Re: Tips for writing solo's/improvising (scales)

Hi,

Ok Thanks for all the suggestions.

So if I'm right in thinking, I was to start playing the A Major scale on the obvious starting point of the 5th fret on the E string and work from there. Then start playing it at the next octave up on the E string, Then move to the A string and start on all A root notes there?

Will that give me the entire fretboards worth of notes to play in the key of A? are there any other notes that sound good apart from the the different major scale positions on the fretboard?

Thanks

[JohnnyGuitar]

Re: Tips for writing solo's/improvising (scales)

Gilmour (among many others) added the notes of the chord he was playing on to his solos - if you're playing a very standard blues progression with an Am pentatonic over major chords - add the F# from the D, mainly when playing the D chord, and add the B you get from the E chord (you'll get the A Dorian actually but lets not get into it).

2nd advice is - pick your target notes - any note that sound harmonic and is within the scale. When you move towards it you can use chromatics, other scales, etc...

Try it - and let us know how it works for you.

[Tele-Bob]

Re: Tips for writing solo's/improvising (scales)

The reason I strongly suggest you approach this from the major scale is that, approaching it from the minor pent is a flawed method that will only serve to further confuse you as you move forward. The pent minor scale is derived from the major and should be addressed as such. By making it your "foundation" you're setting yourself up for a very difficult and confusing musical journey. Trust me. I'm living this nightmare myself.

In short, if you learn the major scale and it's positions, you will then have ideas of what to play all over the neck.

If you want a simple excersize to help get your ears around this, try the following bit:

E----------4------5--------------------------------
B-----------------5--------------7------------------
G----------4--------------6------7--------------------
D----------4--------------6------7------------------
A----------4------5--------------7-------------------
E-----------------5--------------7-----------------


Now, play this scale over an A major7 chord.

Then play it over a B minor chord.

Next, play it over a C# minor chord.

Now try playing it over a D major7 chord.

And then an E7 chord

An F# minor chord

A G#diminished chord

and then your an octave higher on A major.

Here are the chords, just in case you're unsure.

A maj 7
E------------------------------------------------O
B------------2-------------------------------------
G----1--------------------------------------------
D------------2------------------------------------
A-------------------------------------------------O
E------------------------------------------------X


B minor
E----------2--------------------------------------
B----------------3--------------------------------
G----------------------4---------------------------
D----------------------4---------------------------
A----------2---------------------------------------
E--------------------------------------------------X

C# minor 7
E---------------4---------------------------------
B---------------------5----------------------------
G---------------4---------------------------------
D---------------------------6---------------------
A---------------4----------------------------------
E------------------------------------------------X


D maj 7
E---------------5---------------------------------
B----------------------------7---------------------
G---------------------6-----------------------------
D----------------------------7--------------------
A---------------5----------------------------------
E------------------------------------------------X


E 7
E--------------------7----------------------------
B----------------------------------9---------------
G--------------------7------------------------------
D----------------------------------9--------------
A--------------------7-----------------------------
E------------------------------------------------O


F# min 7
E-----------------9-------------------------------
B-----------------------10------------------------
G-----------------9-------------------------------
D-----------------------------11------------------
A-----------------9-------------------------------
E------------------------------------------------X


G# min7 b5
E------------------------------------------------X
B-------------------------------12---------------
G------------------------11----------------------
D-------------------------------12---------------
A------------------------11----------------------
E------------------------------------------------X


A maj 7
E-------------------------12--------------------
B--------------------------------------14-------
G-------------------------------13--------------
D--------------------------------------14-------
A-------------------------12--------------------
E------------------------------------------------X


Do NOT stray from the A major scale! Those 7 notes are all you need to play over all these chords! I know the particular scale form is not convenient, but this is about getting your ears to hear it first, and move the scales later.


Now, if you play these chords in succession, it will sound like a "chord scale." It's a very cool sound and is an awesome method of training your ear to hear different sounds which in turn leads to better writing, improvising and playing.

I know there is a lot of information here and that the tones are going to sound a little hokey at first. A little patience and discipline will go a long way!

The question you asked cannot simply be answered by "playing a new scale." If you can just get through this one little excersize, I promise you, new worlds of music will suddenly open up to you!

[Pink Unicorn Horsey]

Re: Tips for writing solo's/improvising (scales)

Using CODE tags to make it slightly more readable:

[FONT=Courier New][B]A maj 7[/B]
E------------------------------------------------O
B------------2------------------------------------
G----1--------------------------------------------
D------------2------------------------------------
A------------------------------------------------O
E------------------------------------------------X


[B]B minor[/B]
E----------2--------------------------------------
B----------------3--------------------------------
G----------------------4--------------------------
D----------------------4--------------------------
A----------2--------------------------------------
E------------------------------------------------X

[B]C# minor 7[/B]
E---------------4---------------------------------
B---------------------5---------------------------
G---------------4---------------------------------
D---------------------------6---------------------
A---------------4---------------------------------
E------------------------------------------------X


[B]D maj 7[/B]
E---------------5---------------------------------
B----------------------------7--------------------
G---------------------6---------------------------
D----------------------------7--------------------
A---------------5---------------------------------
E------------------------------------------------X


[B]E 7[/B]
E--------------------7----------------------------
B----------------------------------9--------------
G--------------------7----------------------------
D----------------------------------9--------------
A--------------------7----------------------------
E------------------------------------------------O


[B]F# min 7[/B]
E-----------------9-------------------------------
B-----------------------10------------------------
G-----------------9-------------------------------
D-----------------------------11------------------
A-----------------9-------------------------------
E------------------------------------------------X


[B]G# min7 b5[/B]
E------------------------------------------------X
B-------------------------------12----------------
G------------------------11-----------------------
D-------------------------------12----------------
A------------------------11-----------------------
E------------------------------------------------X


[B]A maj 7[/B]
E-------------------------12----------------------
B--------------------------------------14---------
G-------------------------------13----------------
D--------------------------------------14---------
A-------------------------12----------------------
E------------------------------------------------X[/FONT]

[Tele-Bob]

Re: Tips for writing solo's/improvising (scales)

Very cool. Thanks!

[thunderlung]

Re: Tips for writing solo's/improvising (scales)

One small tweak that helped me within the pentatonic minor scale was to make a focused effort to go up and down the neck(often on just one or 2 strings) instead of my same old crap across a particular scale. I was suprised by the different sound/licks this added and it is simple to do. You just have to police yourself and don't fall back into what is easy.

[Pink Unicorn Horsey]

Re: Tips for writing solo's/improvising (scales)

One small tweak that helped me within the pentatonic minor scale was to make a focused effort to go up and down the neck(often on just one or 2 strings) instead of my same old crap across a particular scale. I was surprised by the different sound/licks this added and it is simple to do. You just have to police yourself and don't fall back into what is easy.

That's a good idea. Trey Anastasio (Phish) has his guitar students do this as well.

- Keith

[devilfish]

Re: Tips for writing solo's/improvising (scales)

brilliant, thanks for all the help and suggestions.

I'm definitely going to start learning the major scale in as many position on the neck as i can. Then after i can fluently run down all the position i can find i will start soloing from one position to another to try and get some different ideas going.

Is the minor pentatonic scale just a 'minor' sounding version to play over songs that it sounds appropriate for?

Thanks

[Tele-Bob]

Re: Tips for writing solo's/improvising (scales)

The minor pentatonic is just that, minor. It gives a bluesy, rock sort of vibe to a players sound because the third note is flat, and so is the 7th note. When you're trying to play a pentatonic minor scale over major chords, (it's done all the time in rock and blues), it gives your soloing a more defiant, slang, back alley, rough sort of sound that kinda works with root & 5th type chords commonly found in blues and rock.

But when you start to play solos over more embelished or complex chords, the pentatonic minor scale makes a guy sound like a real amatuer.

The excersize I posted above is an effort to show you that you can play the same notes as found in an A major scale over several different chords and each one takes on a really cool and unique sound of it's own. That's what you were asking for in your original post if I recall correctly.

I would start there. Don't get all crazy thinking that a bunch of new scales are the answer. Learning to hear what can be accomplished with a single scale over several different chords will give you a much more thorough perspective on how this whole thing works. (if you have the discipline to get through the excersize as posted.)

Good luck! The simple fact that you asked the question means that you're hearing that things aren't quite right. Good for you!