Help! I can't play lead!

[guitfiddle]

Re: Help! I can't play lead!

No I agree guitfiddle, you need a good knowledge of the fretboard. I didn't mean it in that way. It's just to me if you get to technical then it seems to lose soul. It's really good for showing off chops and talent etc... But yes a good knowledge mixed with raw emotion = vaughan = hendrix etc... Thats the killer part about guitar, you can take it where ever your mind wants it to go! Just practice up, learn some easier scales and go from there. 1 step at a time. When it clicks, you'll know it! Have fun is most important!

Well said

It's like Trey Anastasio said...you have to learn all you acn, then forget it all when you're on stage.

[Tele-Bob]

Re: Help! I can't play lead!

And if you've ever had to sit through a technical players attempt at what their textbooks and theory tell them is "emotion" most listeners would take the musical stylings of a caveman.


I've said it once and I'll say it again, 99% of the listeners (I know your in the 1% so more power to you) couldn't care less about theory, how difficult something is, how technical is it is. They simply want something they can dance to, rock out to while driving their car or at the show, something that keeps them going while jogging and listening to the Ipod etc.


No one sits around dissecting tracks going "hmmm, here he utilized three E minor modalites in the first 6 bars (pentonic minor, aeolian and dorian), quite impressive"


Its like missing the whole point and meaning of the lyrics to a song because your only concerned with the grammar and sentence structure.

You're missing the point and taking this to an extreme. I'm not saying that all players should be extremely versed in theory to the point where the technical aspects of playing become more important that the playing itself. That is extreme, stupid, and is just not the case with most people.

What is the case with most people is that any slob with a guitar, an attitude and a pent minor scale will get up there and bore us to tears with their "feel" wanking and adolesant phrasing. Then they waffle on about how all that theory stuff just gets in the way. Give me a break! If I have to sit through one more punk ass "feel" guitar solo throwing minor notes over major chords as the pathetic player just hopes and prays they land on the right note, I may have to slit my wrists and bleed all over the poor bastard. We live in an era of dismal local level guitar playing by people who should be ashamed of themselves for doing it public. Knowledge is an amazing thing. A little goes along way. Ignorance unfortunately, is even stronger. But that's just my theory.

[Bender]

Re: Help! I can't play lead!

If you can find a copy of the old album Mountain, "Climbing," pick it up and learn the guitar solos in the song "Theme for an Imaginery Western." Played by Leslie West, it is one of the most tasteful and melodic guitar solos of all time and it's slow enough to give a guy a chance to "get it."

The song was written by Jack Bruce and there are a few different versions out there, but the one you want is on the album "Climbing" by Mountain.

This is not only a beautiful solo in it's execution, technique and note selection, but it is also in a major key so you'll get a break from the dreaded pentatonic minor by learning this one.

From what you say, I'd strongly recommend this tune.

+100
this song is KILLER !
Absolutely one of the best solos Leslie West did . I saw 'em live in New Orleans and have wished ever since I could have gotten a recording of that show ...... MMMMAAAAAAAAAAAAAANNNNN !

[Tele-Bob]

Re: Help! I can't play lead!

Right on Bender!

I saw Mountain in 1976 on New Years Eve at the Nassau Coliseum. They played first and had Carmine Appice on drums. Then Blue Oyster Cult played and KISS took the stage at midnight! Great way to ring in the Bi-centenial!

[NevermindUs]

Re: Help! I can't play lead!

i started and play blues rhythm guitar for years. then after 2 years of playing in a band, the lead guitarist of the band decided to quit. being the only guitar player now, i was voted to play the solos insted of hiring another guitar play. i didnt know what to do, i was no good at it. i want to be like hetfield or stradlin', not hammett and slash. but i think the trial by fire way of learning to solo and improvise was the best, and now ive been told im pretty **** good

[xxxplorer]

Re: Help! I can't play lead!

I always finding my self mimicing the main riff of the song in my solos at some point... I am very surprised no one has mentioned Randy! He is I think the perfect balance of Technical skill and feeling it.... most of his solos are very worked out but man... you feel it when you listen to it. I also think Hendrix knew more than we are led to believe. Now I am not saying that we all need Berkley, because you put on Ozzy or Jimi or even SRV and almost everyone knows it or can sing with it... put on Dream Theatre or Joe Sat... people go to sleep or get board after a little bit. The latter is necessary, but only a small percentage of people really care!

In the end play what makes your big toe shoot up in your boot!

[Tele-Bob]

Re: Help! I can't play lead!

Perhaps the best example I know of, of a guy who literaly shreds but maintains incredible feel is Marc Bonilla. He has an album from the early/mid 90's called EE Ticket that is a true "guitar players" album. Marc Bonilla creates really cool themes in his music and dynamic soloing. He even plays a completely decipherable car crash on his song "Manequin Highway." His interpretation of the Creedence tune "Comotion" is stellar, and on his second album, he does an instrumental version of "Whiter Shade of Pale" that actually rivals the original. His interpretation of the melody line is exemplary with tons feel and an obvious knowledge of what he's doing. Obviously, I'm a big fan. Last I heard he's touring with Keith Emerson.

[Zhangliqun]

Re: Help! I can't play lead!

Lead vs. rhythm. Hadn't heard them so separated since the 70's when I was starting out. In those days, you would even frequently hear an actual guitar itself referred to as a "lead guitar" or "rhythm guitar" -- as if one would explode if you tried to play the other on it. I know what everybody means by it in this thread, one guy is playing chords while the other guy takes the solos.

But here's the thing:

At the end of the day, ALL guitar playing is rhythm guitar. The guy who can "rip through scales" but can't "play rhythm" is also lousy at his solos. Single note lines have to be played in rhythm just as much as chords, even if you're doing a really slow and/or out-of-time thing, deliberately playing in front of the beat, behind it, triplets, etc. Otherwise, your lines will have no feel, just a sequence of notes hoping to impress the girls.

Here's the thing, part II:

Often it's actually harder to play a single note line slow than fast. Take Mr. Rip Through Scales, give him a metronome and have him play the same line about 30-40 bpm slower. He will learn the hard way what a lousy sense of time he has. When a guy is playing really fast, you can't hear the slight variations of the time between notes. When you slow it down, they become GLARINGLY apparent. Mr. RTS is depending on speed to blind you to his lack of rhythm.

Now if you really want to give him a hard time, have him also cut the gain on his amp or stompbox to barely breaking up -- or if you're a really sadistic SOB, have him play it totally clean. Now the lousy picking technique that makes good rhythm playing (chords or solos) impossible is so obvious that he may well break down and cry in front of you -- some notes are really loud and others barely audible, some in between, all out of rhythm and with a horrible touch and tone. He's been leaning so heavily on saturated sustain to automatically compress and homogenize every note both dynamically and tonally that he never learned to pick right, relying on hammer-ons and pull-offs and downstrokes-only with the pick that without all that gain sound as sloppy and mechanical as the worst garage band beginner.

If you really want to be a better guitar player, "rhythm" or "lead", get a metronome and play a somewhat challenging line a few bpm slower than the recording. Also try to learn some true rhythm guitar -- hardcore funk -- which means just about any James Brown song. If you can play that stuff tight and clean, your rhythm -- whether chords or solos, high gain or low, metal or country -- will be there.

But beware, you will be required to get very proficient with alternate picking. Downstrokes-only won't cut it anymore.

[Jrex]

Re: Help! I can't play lead!

Lead vs. rhythm. Hadn't heard them so separated since the 70's when I was starting out. In those days, you would even frequently hear an actual guitar itself referred to as a "lead guitar" or "rhythm guitar" -- as if one would explode if you tried to play the other on it. I know what everybody means by it in this thread, one guy is playing chords while the other guy takes the solos.

But here's the thing:

At the end of the day, ALL guitar playing is rhythm guitar. The guy who can "rip through scales" but can't "play rhythm" is also lousy at his solos. Single note lines have to be played in rhythm just as much as chords, even if you're doing a really slow and/or out-of-time thing, deliberately playing in front of the beat, behind it, triplets, etc. Otherwise, your lines will have no feel, just a sequence of notes hoping to impress the girls.

Here's the thing, part II:

Often it's actually harder to play a single note line slow than fast. Take Mr. Rip Through Scales, give him a metronome and have him play the same line about 30-40 bpm slower. He will learn the hard way what a lousy sense of time he has. When a guy is playing really fast, you can't hear the slight variations of the time between notes. When you slow it down, they become GLARINGLY apparent. Mr. RTS is depending on speed to blind you to his lack of rhythm.

Now if you really want to give him a hard time, have him also cut the gain on his amp or stompbox to barely breaking up -- or if you're a really sadistic SOB, have him play it totally clean. Now the lousy picking technique that makes good rhythm playing (chords or solos) impossible is so obvious that he may well break down and cry in front of you -- some notes are really loud and others barely audible, some in between, all out of rhythm and with a horrible touch and tone. He's been leaning so heavily on saturated sustain to automatically compress and homogenize every note both dynamically and tonally that he never learned to pick right, relying on hammer-ons and pull-offs and downstrokes-only with the pick that without all that gain sound as sloppy and mechanical as the worst garage band beginner.

If you really want to be a better guitar player, "rhythm" or "lead", get a metronome and play a somewhat challenging line a few bpm slower than the recording. Also try to learn some true rhythm guitar -- hardcore funk -- which means just about any James Brown song. If you can play that stuff tight and clean, your rhythm -- whether chords or solos, high gain or low, metal or country -- will be there.

But beware, you will be required to get very proficient with alternate picking. Downstrokes-only won't cut it anymore.

Preach it brotha!!

[guitfiddle]

Re: Help! I can't play lead!

Lead vs. rhythm. Hadn't heard them so separated since the 70's when I was starting out. In those days, you would even frequently hear an actual guitar itself referred to as a "lead guitar" or "rhythm guitar" -- as if one would explode if you tried to play the other on it. I know what everybody means by it in this thread, one guy is playing chords while the other guy takes the solos.

But here's the thing:

At the end of the day, ALL guitar playing is rhythm guitar. The guy who can "rip through scales" but can't "play rhythm" is also lousy at his solos. Single note lines have to be played in rhythm just as much as chords, even if you're doing a really slow and/or out-of-time thing, deliberately playing in front of the beat, behind it, triplets, etc. Otherwise, your lines will have no feel, just a sequence of notes hoping to impress the girls.

Here's the thing, part II:

Often it's actually harder to play a single note line slow than fast. Take Mr. Rip Through Scales, give him a metronome and have him play the same line about 30-40 bpm slower. He will learn the hard way what a lousy sense of time he has. When a guy is playing really fast, you can't hear the slight variations of the time between notes. When you slow it down, they become GLARINGLY apparent. Mr. RTS is depending on speed to blind you to his lack of rhythm.

Now if you really want to give him a hard time, have him also cut the gain on his amp or stompbox to barely breaking up -- or if you're a really sadistic SOB, have him play it totally clean. Now the lousy picking technique that makes good rhythm playing (chords or solos) impossible is so obvious that he may well break down and cry in front of you -- some notes are really loud and others barely audible, some in between, all out of rhythm and with a horrible touch and tone. He's been leaning so heavily on saturated sustain to automatically compress and homogenize every note both dynamically and tonally that he never learned to pick right, relying on hammer-ons and pull-offs and downstrokes-only with the pick that without all that gain sound as sloppy and mechanical as the worst garage band beginner.

If you really want to be a better guitar player, "rhythm" or "lead", get a metronome and play a somewhat challenging line a few bpm slower than the recording. Also try to learn some true rhythm guitar -- hardcore funk -- which means just about any James Brown song. If you can play that stuff tight and clean, your rhythm -- whether chords or solos, high gain or low, metal or country -- will be there.

But beware, you will be required to get very proficient with alternate picking. Downstrokes-only won't cut it anymore.

Now, THAT was one good post.

[alex1fly]

Re: Help! I can't play lead!

I understand where you're coming from. I've been playing about 8 years, and my strengths are in chord theory, progressions, and laying down the rhythm parts. My sense of melody is crummy compared to my sense of rhythm and timing. I've been working on my lead playing, but I always feel like I'm playing the same thing over and over again.

What I've done is try to find things that my specific style of lead playing sounds good over.... that way, I feel good about myself and my playing. Once that's down, I try something new.

Try this out sometime. While you're jamming on your favorite progressions, try adding some space between the chords, and throw in some "passing tones" that sound good in connecting the chords. Pretty soon, you'll start to hear a couple of passing tones that will sound good between the chords. From there, you'll still hear the passing tones between the chords, but maybe you'll think of a 3-note melody for one of the chords. Does that make sense?

This is the approach I've been taking for almost a year now. My lead playing is still wayyyy below where I'd like it be, but I feel more able as a guitarist. Some of us are just more rhythmically minded rather than melodically minded. Play to your strengths, and SLOWLY stretch yourself.

[alex1fly]

Re: Help! I can't play lead!

One point to add - playing in situations where you're forced to take solos day after day, or even week after week, can increase your confidence tremendously, as well as expand your own sense of musicality. Maybe you'll play the same general thing each time, but you can work on playing it with better confidence and presence. My experience in training myself to be halfway decent at lead playing, something that is not my strong point, is that it takes a lot of small steps.

[Zhangliqun]

Re: Help! I can't play lead!

Yeah, you might get so sick of hearing yourself play the same crap over and over that you're forced to stumble onto something brilliant out of sheer desperation. I know it's happened to me once or twice.