Guitar Playing and Hand Pain, help wanted.

[skh515]

I started a thread about Kluson tuners. Among other things it has turned into a discussion about my hand pain. I thought it might be a good idea to start a new thread with what has already been written.

Has anyone else experienced this kind of pain? If so how do/did you deal with it. I still plan on seeing a hand doc, but I'm open to anything that might help.

I do pretty much the same thing Lew. I've never replaced a set of tuners, so I've had to figure out how to make them work.

Oddly enough, our Strats seem to be set up in eerily similar fashion, Five springs, Pivot Bolts tightened down (I've read your other post). The only real difference I've noticed is I've traded in my 11s for 10s. I'm having pain issues in my hands and I'm looking to decrease some of the stress.

Tuning is also painful, so after dealing with Klusons with half a turn of stack in them I get a little annoyed.

Hopefully I'll get in to see my hand doctor and find out this is easily fixed. If not, well I am building a lap steel. I think that will be fairly painless to play. And being a committed guitar player, I will play through the pain as long as possible, if that's my only choice. You guys know what I mean. That's what you'd do, right?

Lew later informed me that he uses 10s on his electrics. So I accused him of copying me.
His response? Oi Vay! I hope Lew doesn't mind if I disclose part of a PM. And thanks for the laugh. I needed it.

It depends on the type of pain. Sometimes a break from playing would heal you up. If you spend a ton of time on the computer, that may be causing your hands to hurt. Also, warm up before playing like a madman. Good luck with the Doctor.

Thanks for the thought. I took a pretty long break without improvement. It seems to be in the thumb, basically when I have to squeeze,
I get pain. For example, barre chords; I can hold a barre for a measure or two, but that's it. I have some material I arranged from piano; all barre chords. I've quit playing those songs (like Tom Wait's "New Coat of Paint" or "Fumblin with the Blues.")

I've been trying to play chords without barres, sometimes using my thumb on the low E, a la Hendrix. I'm also trying to play more open chords, use drone strings, etc.

Are there any warm-ups that will help with that? Gripping the tuners with my right hand causes the same pain.

I have considered Carpel-Tunnel, that is definitely a possibility. The pain goes back 15 years or more, however, since before I spent so much time on the computer. But the pain has definitely gotten worse over the last few years.

I think if anyone can help me, other than a doctor, it would be my fellow guitarist.

Many Thanks,
Steve

This is the original thread:

https://forum.seymourduncan.com/showthread.php?t=25139&page=1&pp=20

[DirrtyCraig]

Re: Guitar Playing and Hand Pain, help wanted.

Hey Steve,

Whenever I have a lapse in my playing or a week without a gig I get hand pain too. Your muscles get accustomed to doing things when your chops are up or physically able to endure certain things that would not normally cause pain. When you take that break, your muscles get weak and trying to do those things will cause pain. My doctor told me that basically verbatim. I now try to play even on weekends off and do some type of metronome excercise daily. No more pain.

[MediaArts1]

Re: Guitar Playing and Hand Pain, help wanted.

Interesting thread!

I'm 47.

About 9 years ago...I had taken a few month break in guitar playing. Just seemed to be too busy with other stuff. Well...one day on a whim...I stopped by one of the local music stores. Grabbed a guitar off the wall, plugged in...was ready to start playing. I'm fairly well know in that store...and the owner's son was the one who fetched the chord and stuff. Anyway...I'm sitting there...and went to play a simple Cmaj7 chord at the 7th fret.

I sat there stunned when my pinky finger wouldn't bend. AT ALL!!!

I guess I hadn't noticed it progressing before sitting down to play, and I was shocked. So much so that Steve (the owner's son) started asking if everything I was alright. I remember sitting there...and trying to play anything...and wasn't able to. I think I may have started freaking out slightly. I've played guitar for a long, long time...and hoped I'd be playing til the day I die, ya know??

And there I was....not able to play a simply barre chord, and certainly no lead riffs whatsoever. When I got home, I made an appointment to see my doctor. I wasn't gonna let my guitar playing career end without a fight.

Guess what?

Arthritis. Plain and simple.

I told him "No, it can't be...I'm not old enough." LOL...(those are the words we come up with when we realize we're getting old I think.)

Anyway...with arthritis, which can be a hell of a lot more painful than I ever thought it would be (explains why my grandmother was always rubbing her hands)...there's a whole lot of studies going on about what you can do.

Following is an excerpt explaining basic Osteo-Arthritis.

cont'd

[MediaArts1]

Re: Guitar Playing and Hand Pain, help wanted.

Cartilage is the hard and slippery cover on the end of the two bones in a joint that absorbs shock and reduces the friction between the bones. Cartilage consists of cells surrounded by a unique spongy structure called the extracellular matrix. The cells (chondrocytes) comprise less than 10% of cartilage volume and are responsible for synthesizing and maintaining the matrix. The large matrix component of cartilage is a meshwork of collagen fibers that provide strong tension, and interlocking protein and sugar chains called proteoglycans that bind large quantities of water. This structure, with its tightly bound water, gives cartilage its elasticity and ability to act like a “shock absorber.”
Cartilage doesn’t have its own blood supply, so it depends upon joint movement to obtain nutrition. The matrix acts like a “biologic sponge.” When the joint is moved, the cartilage is compressed and water and waste products are released. When the load is removed, the matrix reabsorbs water and other nutrients, allowing the cartilage to rebound to its original shape.

In OA, the normal balance between cartilage breakdown and synthesis is disrupted as the result of a complex interplay between cartilage and bone cells, mechanical forces and various molecules. The molecules that can affect this balance include hormones, growth factors, signaling proteins such as cytokines and integrins that serve as a relay system for communications between cells and the matrix, as well as many different types of harmful enzymes and their natural inhibitors.

As researchers have made more progress in identifying and characterizing these various factors, they are building the knowledge base that could lead to better ways to detect, treat and eventually prevent and cure OA.

My doctor is one of those guys that believed that exercising the joint gave the best results, even though it may be painful at first. He was right, at least in my case. It hurt like hell to force my finger to clench into a fist and reopen. But I did it...a lot. Throughout the day...I'd flex my hand open and shut...and gradually the pain went away completely. I now play with the same dexterity I had as a teenager. It doesn't hurt at all.

I'm not suggesting that yours is arthritis, but it wouldn't surprise me at all. Find out first....go see your doctor. If it's something worse, you'll need to get started on fixing it right away. If it IS arthritis...then exercising it will likely help the pain (and frustration) go away....although it's gonna hurt at first!

Good luck!

Dave

[gordon_39422]

Re: Guitar Playing and Hand Pain, help wanted.

[COLOR=Teal]

My doctor is one of those guys that believed that exercising the joint gave the best results, even though it may be painful at first. He was right, at least in my case.

Dave

After having spent 8 years in the Infantry of the US Army, I have some deep-seeded mentality involving the "Suck It Up!" attitude. It has worked miracles. I mean there has been some pain that seemed unbearable, but working through the pain
1) helps increase your threshold for pain
2) generally works the joint in a fashion that will transport enzymes and hormones to heal the ailment!

[Randy Combs]

Re: Guitar Playing and Hand Pain, help wanted.

My knuckles and joints hurt at times until I found out about chondroitin/glucosamin. Wal-Mart has a brand called Osteo Bi-Flex. I tell you it works. For 2 years I have used it. 6 months ago I quit taking it and about 3 weeks later my hands started hurting again so I started taking it again and no more pain or soreness.

[TwilightOdyssey]

Re: Guitar Playing and Hand Pain, help wanted.

One thing I've learned about arm/hand pain, as well, is that your spine has something to do with it. I was experiening shoting pains in my elbow and left hand, and my guitar teacher recommended using a chair with a straight back ... it worked!!!

[hacker]

Re: Guitar Playing and Hand Pain, help wanted.

After having spent 8 years in the Infantry of the US Army, I have some deep-seeded mentality involving the "Suck It Up!" attitude. It has worked miracles. I mean there has been some pain that seemed unbearable, but working through the pain
1) helps increase your threshold for pain
2) generally works the joint in a fashion that will transport enzymes and hormones to heal the ailment!

You have to "work through the pain" intelligently when it comes to O.A., tendonitis, or carpal tunnel (which is way more serious than the first two).

Taking a break from playing while doing proper exercises is what will help.

I have had Osteo-Arthritis in both shoulders and my lower back in the past 5 years. Was cured relatively easily through P.T. and Celebrex.

I have also experienced tendonitis in my my left hand hand. I exercise this daily, and it has stabilized, but its not 100%. I refuse to give up playing, which I know will cure it completely.

Carpal tunnnel causes a tingling in the fingers, which I havent had, but was mis-diagnosed as originally. With Carpal tunnel you must give up playing until it heals, which also may require surgery.

[skh515]

Re: Guitar Playing and Hand Pain, help wanted.

And the answer is...

I saw the hand doc today. I have, of all things, congenitally fused bones in my wrists. Where I should have 3 or 4 seperate bones I have just one large bone. (Insert joke here). I'll be getting, in about two weeks, a soft splint to wear on my left hand when I play.

I also have a little arthritis at the base of my left thumb, probably from playing through the pain all these years. Some times "Just Do It" isn't the best advice. Hmm, wonder if I can sue Nike? Or maybe Monster Cable, not sure how that ties in, but I'm dying to sue those bastards...Come on, Monster Garage, Monsters Inc.

So what was I saying...oh yeah, he suggested Glucosamine Chondroitin. Randy Combs called that one. And he gave me Mobic for joint pain.

The good news is the congential thing won't be getting worse and the arthritis isn't bad, at least not yet.

I'll let you know how the splint works when I get it.

Thanks all,
Steve

[southadc]

Re: Guitar Playing and Hand Pain, help wanted.



Sorry to jump in, but it is a hand pain thing, and I didn't want to start a new thread (glad you did the right thing and saw a doctor by the way!).

Just in my left hand I get tingling and numbness fairly often. It runs alongside the one side of my hand (all of the 'pad' on the pinky side of the palm), all the way from my wrist to the tips of my oinky and third fingers, sometimes into my second finger a little too. This is just in my fretting (left) hand.

Funny thing is, I don't get to play guitar very often these days. However, I do spend all day sat at a computer for my job, and I use my left hand for the mouse. I'm also at college studying programming, so I spend a lot of evenings at the computer.

Anyone know what I should do about the tingling? It is a little uncomfortable, but I do have to work with computers. I get the problem more in the mornings than the afternoon, particularly after a heavy night on the beer

[itbepopples]

Re: Guitar Playing and Hand Pain, help wanted.

i have pain like that with barre chords with thick strings and im only 18! only in my thumb region tho, my fingers are still fine. good luck dude!

[skh515]

Re: Guitar Playing and Hand Pain, help wanted.

Sorry to jump in, but it is a hand pain thing, and I didn't want to start a new thread (glad you did the right thing and saw a doctor by the way!).

Not a problem

Just in my left hand I get tingling and numbness fairly often. It runs alongside the one side of my hand (all of the 'pad' on the pinky side of the palm), all the way from my wrist to the tips of my oinky and third fingers, sometimes into my second finger a little too. This is just in my fretting (left) hand.

No doubt you've considered carpel tunnel. If that is the problem I believe there are wrist-braces you can wear to prevent further damage. As a guitar playing computer programmer, you may want to consider that as a preventative measure.

I'm no doc, but what you describe sounds to me like some kind of nerve damage, injury, thingey (My idea of medical jargon). I believe there is a nerve than runs down your arm through the side of the palm and into those fingers. I believe that is the one Django Reinhart injuried in the fire that paralyzed those two fingers.

I'd go see a doc about it. Maybe they could call inflamation of that nerve Django-itis. Mention it to the doc, see if it catches on.

Fictional doctor:
"Yes Mr. South, it appears that you have a little Django-itis with a touch of I'sa Muggin Boom."

http://www.riverwalk.org/proglist/showpromo/django.htm

http://www.heptune.com/iseamugg.html

[skh515]

Guitar Playing and Hand Pain, update.

The soft splint my doctor prescribed didn't work. Who knew doctors could be wrong?
Well I did. I could write a book!

The physical therapist who fit my splint believes it is my tendons. She gave me some exercises to do, especially right before I play.

So far I think they are working, but I can't be sure yet. If the doc will sign off on it, I'll be starting a couple of weeks of physical therapy.

I'll let everyone know how it goes.

[Jeffrec]

Re: Guitar Playing and Hand Pain, help wanted.

My knuckles and joints hurt at times until I found out about chondroitin/glucosamin.

This works really well for joint pain. It's a good idea to look into it. However, if you've got Carpal Tunnel syndrome, it won't help. See a hand Doc, but if he/she suggests Carpal Tunnel, and wants to operate, have him/her look into other options. I've got some CT in my right hand (picking hand) and I found that stretching exercises help a lot. I don't think the CT came from guitar playing. I think it was from playing an extrememly dificult video game on my PC.

[Mkf411]

Re: Guitar Playing and Hand Pain, help wanted.

The first symptoms tha I had of my hand problems was waking up with my hand and forearm super numb. Then I started getting shooting pain in my hands during normal everyday activities. Like when I was walking my dog and she pulled on the leash fast. I'd get numb if I held the phone to my ear too long. Stuff like that, along with a bit of tingling and shooting pain.

My doctor was pretty much useless, and the physical trainer was a waste of time. I use the joint powder, chondroitin/glucosamin, mentioned earlier and that helps. I wore braces when I slept, that helps (not too tight, though). Part of my problem was that I would sleep in an awkward position with my hands curled into to my chest, cutting off circulation, the braces stopped that.

I also tried a bunch of anti-inflamatory medications from the doctor. Plain old Target Brand Aspirin, 2 300mg tablets, helps me much more.

I stopped going to physical training becuase it wasn't helping and I didn't want to take too much time off from work. That's an easy way to get fired.

The first specialist I saw wanted to operate before he even looked at my hand. After reading books like "It's Not Carpel Tunnel Syndrome" (available on Amazon.com), I'm glad I didn't consider the operation. According to this book and my experience, some if not most doctors have little understanding of CTS. Most folks who have the operation are OK for awhile and then the problem returns, so they operate on your elbow and your OK for awhile and it comes back. What the book is saying is that your hands are the symptom, but most likely the problem is upstream in your chest or back. I think it's our bodies telling us to strengthen our upper bodies and to warm up before playing and to take breaks from repetetive activites, like guitar and computers. I mean like don't play for 4 hours straight without at least a few 20 minute breaks. Also, chill and relaxe when you play. I used to really grip my guitar but I've eased up a bit.

I'm not 100% better, but a year later, between warming up, relaxing, and riasing up my strap a bit so my hand doesn't make an awkward bend, I'm getting much better. I don't need the wrist braces and I don't have numbness or tingling much and rarely get a shooting pain in hands. Even my trigger finger is getting better.

One thing that really helps is the Power Ball. http://www.backbenimble.com/new/page....htm?bbvid=hav

I got one at my local sporting goods store for $10. I use if for about 5 minutes before and 5 minutes after playing. I don't go crazy with it, just to warm up. It helps my fingers loosen up and I'm warm before playing. I saw one on the Aerosmith tour bus, too, in their DVD "You Gotta Move", so even pros use them.

Your experience may differ, cause some doctors are pretty good and I know there are good physical trainers out there. It's good to have a doctor check you out. A good chiropractor will help alot of people, too. If you smoke, quit.

I think with exercise, warming up, braces, a lighter touch on the guitar and keyboard I'm getting way better.