Music Theory help

[Johnny the Kid]

Okay, so I'm working on some music for my band to play next summer during our break from college, and I'm having some trouble. The problem is that I'm playing a three bar phrase in 4/4 common time. Is that an acceptable thing or is it normally 4 bar phrases in 4/4 time?

[ItsaBass]

Re: Music Theory help

If the phrase takes three bars, then it takes three bars. I don't see the issue here.

[Aceman]

Re: Music Theory help

No rule or policy

It takes as long as it takes.

There is something to be said for nice even and symmetrical chunks. Then again, There is more to be said for great melody and harmony. And of course, changing up for something a little bit different is never bad.

I was reflecting on my first "song" and used two bars per 'phrase' but have decided it needs to be 1.5 bars per, reducing a verse to 6 bars.

[Johnny the Kid]

Re: Music Theory help

I was just making sure. I know my teacher last year didn't really touch upon structure of music as much as he talked about how chords interact with each other. I tried contacting him about this like a month ago, and after a while, I just got tired of waiting around. I can see having like 2 bars in a 4/4 piece because doubling that phrase would give you a 4 bar phrase, but a 3 bar phrase kind of screwed me up.

[TwilightOdyssey]

Re: Music Theory help

That will work, there are no rules.

Alternatively, you can try making the time signature 2 bars of 6/4, one of 12/4, 3 of 3/4, or any other combination and see how the downbeats change your perception of the phrase. I usually play around this way when writing because my phrases rarely fit in a neat 4/4 box.

Experimenting with time sigs within the song can greatly increase its complexity but can also be done in a way that sounds deceptively simple if you so desire.

[jtougas]

Music Theory help

*nods* playing different time signatures against each other results in very complex music, and it keeps you on your toes playing it, but when it works out, it rocks.

[Johnny the Kid]

Re: Music Theory help

That will work, there are no rules.

Alternatively, you can try making the time signature 2 bars of 6/4, one of 12/4, 3 of 3/4, or any other combination and see how the downbeats change your perception of the phrase. I usually play around this way when writing because my phrases rarely fit in a neat 4/4 box.

Experimenting with time sigs within the song can greatly increase its complexity but can also be done in a way that sounds deceptively simple if you so desire.

I did. I wrote it into 12/4, and then, when it got to the verse, which is a 4 bar phrase in 4/4, it didn't work out so well. I would have had to do a lot of time signature changes, and I was trying to avoid that, but it seems that it might be the best way to go, to give a sense of complexity to the music, and then still keep it simple to play.

Thanks for all the help guys. It's sort a pop punk song that will turn really heavy later. It's going to start off as a simple pattern. I find Coheed and Cambria to be really influential, in that they were able to take relatively simple patterns and keep adding and embellishing them to make a very cool final piece. I'll keep you guys updated on the progress of the music. I have 1 song done, and I want to have 6 or 7 more by the time I go home for the summer, because I want to record them and put out an EP.

[Chickenwings]

Re: Music Theory help

time signatures and bar structure are purely a way of writing down the feels you are hearing in your head and playing with your hands. Play your piece until you feel you are really grooving, then write it down however you need to to put the ideas on paper. There are no rules, only precedents.

[jaybonitrane]

Re: Music Theory help

Try switching to 6/8 time and go for the jugular.

[RobSoundtrack]

Re: Music Theory help

Depending on what it sounds like, you may even be able to play that phrase 4 times over 3 progressions as a polymeter. (12 bars total)

[jon the art guy]

Re: Music Theory help

syncopation is awesome. Do that thing. You'll also make it difficult for someone to sing and play in the song.

[IvanMC]

Re: Music Theory help

We ought to listen to what you're trying to do, but it sounds as though it's a case of rhythmical displacement, which may sound beyond amazing if effectively done.

[Rockstar216]

Re: Music Theory help

time signatures and bar structure are purely a way of writing down the feels you are hearing in your head and playing with your hands. Play your piece until you feel you are really grooving, then write it down however you need to to put the ideas on paper. There are no rules, only precedents.

^ this. Time sigs are really used for when you want to write down the music and when your reading music you know what the rhythm is. You can literally write down the same piece of music more then one way generally you write down what is easier to read for another musician. If your playing a three bar phrase you might want to write it in 3/4 or 6/4. 12/4 is a bit unorthodox possible yes but not normally used.