Adding space to composition.

[Jacew]

I've been working on a composition recently and 2/3 is pretty good already. I'm bit uncertain whether the first 1/3 works as supposed. The build up could be less crowded and more open sounding.

Since many of you are quite smart about this stuff. How do you like to, or would, add space to composition?

I'm currently leaning towards leaving it as is and applying volume alteration in recording to tweak the feel. Have no idea whether that is going to work in this case though.

[VinceT]

Re: Adding space to composition.

I've been working on a composition recently and 2/3 is pretty good already. I'm bit uncertain whether the first 1/3 works as supposed. The build up could be less crowded and more open sounding.

Since many of you are quite smart about this stuff. How do you like to, or would, add space to composition?

I'm currently leaning towards leaving it as is and applying volume alteration in recording to tweak the feel. Have no idea whether that is going to work in this case though.

Remove things. Either play less, or mute tracks. For me, it’s the hardest thing to do when creating a track, because I’m naturally inclined to ADD. But there’s something special about removing (e.g.) a guitar part and finding that things just open up harmonically.

Second trick, make sure that EQ is matched between tracks and not overlapping too much, give each part it’s own sonic space.


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[Chistopher]

Re: Adding space to composition.

One thing I found is that with a crowded composition, it is easy to make it sound less crowded by either having a tonally different instrument doing a part originally intended for one instrument (for example, instead of having three accoustic guitars each doing their own thing, you could have a mandolin do melody, a banjo do the counter melody, and one acoustic do the rythmn; not the best example, but you can see what I'm getting at) or using studio magic to "add" more space. You could EQ separate instruments so they don't take up the same sonic space (as was mentioned above) or you could also mess with panning different instruments to different sides of the track. Stereo recording is a HUGE help for larger groups.

Edit: Also, don't have too many parts all doing the same thing, you don't need a baritone sax and a double bass both doing the same or similar bass line. Kind of like how it sounds bad if the rhythm guitar and the lead both sound too similar to each other. In short, don't over-reinforce one part.

[Demanic]

Re: Adding space to composition.

Try to keep your tracks to a minimum. Use eq to cut rather than boost (although there are exceptions).
Remember that frequencies are cumulative in the final mix, ie. boosting the bass on every instrument to get them to sound heavy gives nothing but mud in the final mix.

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[Jacew]

Re: Adding space to composition.

Well, it's already cut to pretty much bare minimum before the first chorus. Basically just lead and bass with an occasional chord in background.

That's why I thought gain adjustment might work. There's hardly anything else to cut.

Good idea with panning. Maybe if I add second lead track, voice them differently, and pan left and right with volume dropped I could create that sense of space I feel it's missing?

[Chistopher]

Re: Adding space to composition.

I have recently been experimenting with panning as well and that's what has lead me to recommend it to you. I've been working on a way to double track one guitar live and that has also taught me how I can actually add more to a track and make it less crowded simultaneously. Think about it, Bob Seeger's band for example can have a dozen instruments all going at the same time, each of them adding to the track, but not stepping on each others toes. Then take some early Punk records that might have three instruments, but they are all fighting with each other for the listeners attention.

The studio can make anything happen.

[Kamanda~SD]

Re: Adding space to composition.

Clips always help with the tips

[LLL]

Re: Adding space to composition.

Panning and especially EQ does the trick.

Give each instrument or instrument group a frequency range (EQ) that doesn't overstep the other instruments.

Not saying that instruments absolutely cannot share frequencies with others... just be careful.

There's plenty of frequencies in the spectrum to carve out spots for all instruments.

This is why when you listen to (for ex) ISO tracks of guitar, etc on famous tunes... sometimes the guitar doesn't sound that great by itself.

For example: very general rule of thumb with guitars - rhythm track, scoop out the mids. solo track, add mids.

[Kamanda~SD]

Re: Adding space to composition.

Alot of good stuff in here already, however, no mixing advise is going to help if the instrument arrangement is not there

[TwilightOdyssey]

Re: Adding space to composition.

The build up could be less crowded and more open sounding.

This is the key phrase, I think, without having heard the composition in question.

When you are doing a build up, or a drop, you cannot make something sound big, or small, without something to compare it against. How you achieve that is a combination of both arrangement technique and production technique.

From an arrangement perspective, using dynamics is key; when something increases in SPL in the real world, there are other psychoacoustic side effects besides the logarithmic increase in level; the EQ changes as well.

From a production perspective, you can build layers to create that same effect; one way is to peak at the end of the build up ... add sub harmonic information to add tension ... parallel compression ... harmonic distortion and saturation ... all of these things add to the mix and don't have to have significantly increase in the overall level -- a 2dB voltage increase = almost doubling in SPL.

Without hearing the parts in context it's impossible to be specific, but these guidelines should get you started.

[Jacew]

Re: Adding space to composition.

Thanks TwilightOdyssey: You hit the exact point there. Like I said, it's rather simplistic as it is.

The dynamic effect indeed might work, the arrangment part is trickier... maybe some very low level background slow notes could emphasis the "smallness" of the arrangment. (Is that what sub harmonic information means?).

The chorus part is already rather "loud" compared to intro and build up, but since it comes after the effect is lost... I did try fade in to intro to work the same way, but it didn't. Maybe somthing louder before the actual intro could tweak the perception there?

[TwilightOdyssey]

Re: Adding space to composition.

Maybe. Sounds like you are thinking along the right lines.

Sub harmonic is low in frequency, not level. Basically, add a bass part that shows decent level but is actually too low to hear; you can roll off everything above 40-50Hz. This will create a lot of tension. Then put a ride on it so that it increases in level but doesn't hit peak intensity until the very end of the buildup.

Another trick: double the guitar part on bass guitar, playing through your guitar rig, but on the D string only. Blend that in to add weight to the guitar.

Another trick - - end the buildup either 1/8th note before or after the bar line for the part following. Classic arrangement trick that really works.