Hows does your brain work

[Jacew]

Re: Hows does your brain work

Perhaps I've understood something wrong, or just have different way of looking at it, but I don't get about "learning" modes or basic scales.

In my time of playing music I've learned exactly one scale thorough: The major scale.

Now to to play modes I just shift the root for the mode I want to play. Or scale derived from major scale. To play blues or pentatonic I just leave out or add notes to that basic scale. I thought that's what every musician does, there's really no "learning the scale", or mode. It's just a matter of what notes you use for the piece.

[Gtrjunior]

Re: Hows does your brain work

Perhaps I've understood something wrong, or just have different way of looking at it, but I don't get about "learning" modes or basic scales.

In my time of playing music I've learned exactly one scale thorough: The major scale.

Now to to play modes I just shift the root for the mode I want to play. Or scale derived from major scale. To play blues or pentatonic I just leave out or add notes to that basic scale. I thought that's what every musician does, there's really no "learning the scale", or mode. It's just a matter of what notes you use for the piece.

Not sure understand what your saying. Can you give an example of what you might do if say, you want to take the major scale you know and play something in Dorian?

[Gtrjunior]

Re: Hows does your brain work

Links?

https://www.seymourduncan.com/?s=modes&post_type=

[Gtrjunior]

Re: Hows does your brain work

Links?

See how the words “written a series of blogs” are in a different color in Mincer’s post...
Click on those words...that’s the link.

[Gtrjunior]

Re: Hows does your brain work

Dude....I had no idea you were a Fokin guy!
I have those pickups in 4 guitars....he makes AMAZING pickups.

[Phantasmagoria]

Re: Hows does your brain work

Dude....I had no idea you were a Fokin guy!
I have those pickups in 4 guitars....he makes AMAZING pickups.

Damn right I Fokin am!

I did post a thread about them in the pickup lounge a few years ago..very awesome p'up's indeed!

I have them in two guitars .I'd get more if I had more guitars to put them in

[Mincer]

Re: Hows does your brain work

Links?

The link is in my first sentence. If it doesn't work, it is https://www.seymourduncan.com/?s=modes&post_type=

[Gransen]

Re: Hows does your brain work

I just purchased a course from Alex Skolnick. Same thing he said, learn licks.

I might have just found Ionian mode A DIFFERENT WAY...!!! Back to basics once again, "Find the right chord progression, and THEN use the right licks!"

In trying to solve that B-D-A-E chord prog that you and I were talking about (which is an abomination to music theory...that sounds AWESOME!), I bumped into I-iii-V-vi in Ionian mode (G-Bm-D-Em). It's a "moody major chord prog," like a minor, but it has intervals that allow for different sounding fills on lead, as well as transitional notes on rhythm.

So, step one, stay in my "moody wheelhouse" with the right chord prog, THEN install the right licks on lead! THEN start looking for those uplifting progs / licks once I'm comfortable with that mode.

Step two (untested by me as of yet), use these new licks (and alterations thereof) to come up with the right chord progs. That's backwards thinking for this "rhythm first" cowboy...

[Gransen]

Re: Hows does your brain work

I feel like I am just confusing you. 1st things 1st, learn the major scale. Learn how its formed, the intervals and such. Dont worry about modes, your making way too much of it. It's not so complicated. Step back and learn the major scale diatonic, 7 notes

Sent from my SM-J737V using Tapatalk

Learn the major scale...??? Dude, where did THAT come from...!?!

Pick up a guitar. Now, I want you to play the following chords: B-D-A-E...all major open/barre chords. Then tell me if that sounds like it's a good chord progression for a song.

Okay, what MODE is that chord prog from...??? It's absolutely NONE of the major modes in the natural scale. LOOK AT IT!!! Furthermore, it's not "borrowing thirds from a parallel key," nor is it "the dominate of the dominate" that allows for this borrowing!

Notice how I call it "the MODES of the Natural Scale," and not the incorrect "Ionian scale, Aeolian scale, etc." I know the entire natural scale and it's modes, and I can teach it...

https://forum.seymourduncan.com/show...21-Shred-Scale

Seriously, it feels like I'm the one who's confusing YOU!

[Jacew]

Re: Hows does your brain work

Not sure understand what your saying. Can you give an example of what you might do if say, you want to take the major scale you know and play something in Dorian?

Major scale I know? Independent of the key major scale is always practically the same. Isn't it just a matter of playing the same thing in different place on the fretboard?

So since Dorian scale shares same notes as Ionian scale of one whole step down of the major scale, I just play notes from that major scale anchored from the key I want to play.

eg: in C major scale, second degree is D. So if I want to play D dorian, I play C major scale keeping the root in D.

[Gtrjunior]

Re: Hows does your brain work

Major scale I know? Independent of the key major scale is always practically the same. Isn't it just a matter of playing the same thing in different place on the fretboard?

So since Dorian scale shares same notes as Ionian scale of one whole step down of the major scale, I just play notes from that major scale anchored from the key I want to play.

eg: in C major scale, second degree is D. So if I want to play D dorian, I play C major scale keeping the root in D.

While your definition is technically correct it’s a bit of an oversimplification.
What would you do if I asked you to play D Dorian but you HAD to play in 12th position?
You wouldn’t be able to use the same scale shape anymore...what’s your solution?

[Gransen]

Re: Hows does your brain work

Go to the 3rd mode at E. Thats phyrgian, same notes as C major, D Dorian, this time starting from the 3rd note, E. Then a Half step up is Lydian, F Lydian to be exact again, same notes. You may know this, please dont get insulted if you do. 1, 4, 5 are major triads, 2,3,6 are minor. 7 sucks, we dont use it. I just tried to help, and I get insulted, not by you, but mr dont know jack ship

Please avoid passive / aggressive insults in public.

And I figured out which mode that the B-D-A-E chord prog comes from, and it's a little known rule regarding that mode that I read about a long time ago: Locrian Mode.

The rule is that you can borrow the major/minor properties of the degree in which the interval falls into, and also use Locrian as either a major or minor.

"B" is the tonic of Locrian mode, so the only notes in the key of Bdim are B-C-D-E-F-G-A...no sharps or flats. So, we've got Bdim, and we can play that as a major, because we can. THAT'S THE RULE. Then we have a minor interval, then another minor, then a major. So, now all that we have to do is borrow the major 3rd for those two minors, and now we're playing music.

This is not an argument, and I don't see it as such. This is me simply stating that I found a chord prog that I couldn't figure out the scale to (HOW DO I PLAY LEAD OVER THAT...!?!), and then spent too long not looking at the diminished mode, then had my "ah-HA!!!" moment, and remembered something that I read years and years ago about another "chord borrowing" technique.

That's the crux of my problem with that chord progression, how can a person play lead if they don't know the mode...??? This progression SOUNDS GOOD! But, how can I actually use it if I don't know the other intervals...!?! So, how does one find the other missing intervals...??? Now it's time to figure out the mode and/or scale that's being used (is it from an oddball jazz scale...???) so that a person can play their lead licks along with a rhythm guitar; potentially playing on a loop pedal, thus only requiring one guitar player to play both lead AND rhythm.

And the rule that I learned regarding the diminished scale is that YOU CAN TURN THE ROOT OF THE DIMINISHED SCALE INTO EITHER A MAJOR OR A MINOR! Then you can borrow properties of the degree that the other intervals fall into, and turn the whole thing into something else that's virtually undefinable. And, of course, when playing lead, the player needs to follow the diminished pattern while ignoring the "borrowed" aspects of the chords being played.

And THAT'S why B-D-A-E works as a chord prog. And THAT'S why it was important for me to figure out which mode I'm in, or if I'm using an entirely different scale altogether (like the Hirajoshi scale, or the harmonic minor beebop scale...???).

Next trick: That's a very lively chord progression, and a very moody tone/semitone pattern to follow on lead. One thought...HARMONIZE THE LEAD USING A DIFFERENT MODE!!!

And yeah, I like doing that. That's a trick that I use and abuse, probably more than I abuse inverted power chords...

[Gtrjunior]

Hows does your brain work

Go to the 3rd mode at E. Thats phyrgian, same notes as C major, D Dorian, this time starting from the 3rd note, E. Then a Half step up is Lydian, F Lydian to be exact again, same notes. You may know this, please dont get insulted if you do. 1, 4, 5 are major triads, 2,3,6 are minor. 7 sucks, we dont use it. I just tried to help, and I get insulted, not by you, but mr dont know jack ship

So, you’re thinking of this a little askew. I completely understand what you mean when you say “go to the 12th fret and play Phrygian.” But you’re confusing the Phrygian “shape” with the mode. You’re still playing in D Dorian, not E Phrygian.
It all hinges on what the rhythm is playing.
Modes tend to follow “typical” chord progressions.
For Ex..
Lydian typically has a M1-M2 movement. Amaj to Bmaj.
Mixo typically has a M1- Mdom7 Amaj to GDom 7

Dorian is 1m7 to IV(Dom7)
Dm7-Gdom7.
If you’re playing over this progression using D Dorian and move up to the 12th fret and use the scale shape you are calling Phrygian....it is still Dorian and not Phrygian.
Make sense?

[Gtrjunior]

Re: Hows does your brain work

Exactly how I see it, the chords determine the mode. Back to that 1,4, 5 thing. Sometimes I like doing 1 chord vamps the other way though. Say its in Aminor?
Play the A dorian, Phyg or Aeolian over the same chord. I think its easier to hear the flavor of the mode that way. You said 12 fret, so those notes would be Phygian if an E minor was playing, right? Long as you resolve to a strong chord tone, same notes. I just bought a book on caged, and I been working hard on my triads too. Its a lot to learn, but I am trying hours everyday

I think you get it.
Try this....use your looper pedal to record some basic power chord chugging. E lower chord changing to F power chord chugging. Then play that 12th position E Phrygian....now you’ll hear the Phrygian sound. That exotic kind of Arabian sound.
Play your D Dorian shape over it too...see how it still sounds Phrygian and exotic? Pretty cool.

Now record a Dm7 to Gdom7 change....go back and forth between those same 2 scales....notice how it now has the Dorian, smooth minor Santana sound....?
It’s all about the chords. [emoji846]

[Gtrjunior]

Re: Hows does your brain work

I do get it, now making it happen in real time is another thing. I find it actually fairly simple, as far as the theory goes. Thanks for the progressions, I am not quite ready to write, maybe in a year or two. The other thing I want to see is adding the extensions that bring out each modes flavor. Another one I learned, when you see two major chords a half step apart, its harmonic minor there

Sent from my SM-J737V using Tapatalk

It’s 2 major chords a whole step apart for Lydian.

But a half step apart isn’t harmonic minor though. You would need a minor1 chord for H-minor. So the harmonic minor scale is a natural minor scale with a raised 7th (major 7 in a minor scale).