Modes?

[DiminisheD-7th]

Re: Modes?

Mike, i really appreciate the work done on your site man, its also free
so... you rule

if you want ideas for more excersizes on how to develop hearing to develop your site even further, i know a program called Ear Master (the latest version is 4.#) that has a huge arsenal of excersizes, if you havnt seen it already maybe it could help.

cheerz!


i'll explain abit on Melodic Minor modes:
in classical music melodic minor was used as the descending minor scale. in jazz music it was started to be used as a scale for anything (both ascending and descending).
take A Melodic Minor for example-
1) A B C D E F# G# A. the degrees of this scale are hence 1 2 b3 4 5 6 7 1 (sort of a minor - major combination, or dorian with a major 7th.. however you want to look at it)
the scale degrees portrait an AmMaj'7 chord.
like in the major modes described above, the modes of melodic minor are built from the same notes in the same order but referring to different degrees as the "root".
i will try to show the modes with arpeggio's, that will also show the "signature" chord of that particular mode.
2) (starting from the second degree of A Melodic Minor) B D F# A - 1 b3 5 b7 - Bm7. this mode is a Phrygian with a major 6th.
3) C E G# B = 1 3 #5 7 = Maj'7#5. this mode is Lydian Augmented
4) D F# A C = 1 3 5 b7 = D7. Lydian Dominant - this one is probably the most useful. the degrees for the entire scale are: 1 2 3 #4 5 6 b7. its useful in Jazz substitutions, aswell as x7b5 chords. works on most major dominant chords that are not in a V7-1 progression.
5) E G# B D = 1 3 5 b7 = E7. Mixolydian b6. in my experience its not so useful.
6) F# A C E = 1 b3 b5 b7 = F#m7b5 (half diminished). Super Locrian. this one is really really useful. it works great over most half diminished chords, and it sounds better most of the time then the normal Locrian that has an annoying b2 (to my taste)
7) G# B D F# = 1 b3 b5 b7 - G#m7b5 . this scale is called Altered. the degrees are 1 b2 b3 b4 b5 b6 b7. very useful in jazz mostly.

[HamerPlyr]

Re: Modes?

Here's the problem that I have with all of this, and maybe some of you can help me with it. I learn when I see application for theory. When I have raw theory spelled out in front of me, I just go back to playing what I know works. I have some limited knowledge of theory, but not as it relates to guitar. I was trained to know music on a piano. You may know how that routine goes. You are taught to play songs by reading music that is already written. You aren't trained to question why or to improvise, or I wasn't, at least.

Can you make me understand how and why, say, a Phrygian scale works against something simple, like a I-IV-V progression? Remember, keep it slow. I'm not that smart when it comes to theory.

[Mike7771]

Re: Modes?

DiminisheD-7th - thanks for the info I haven't seen Ear Master but I'll check it out today.

HamerPlyr - you've hit on something important. Reading books and websites on theory do nothing until you take the theories you learn and put them to work on your instrument. But let me tell you, once you learn how to apply theory the world opens up. This is a LOT more than just knowing scales and chord names. THere are theories that can change your whole playing style if you understand what the musical reference is talking about and how to apply it.

I'll give you a small example. I love the beatles, I think they were one of the best band ever. When I was 19 I liked the beatles but had a little less repect for them cause I thought they "didn't know their scales". When I would look at their chord progressions it would seem to me they used all the right chords except one or two of the chords would fall out of key. When I got a little older the fact that they drop out of key bugged me even more; not because it didn't sound good but because it sound great. I remember talking to my friend and saying "I just don't get it they (the beatles) fall out of key at the perfect point and come back into key at the perfect point how do they know when to do that?".

So a few years later I'm reading a BIG book on theory "The Shaping OF Musicial Elements Volumes 1 & 2" and I read about secondary dominant chords and secondary leading tone chords. A grabed my guitar and tryed my hand at this new theory and finally got it. It was like someone turned on a light. I finally understood after years of wondering. It wasn't that the beatles didn't know their scale they just went beyond them. I use these concept all the time in my writing and have built technique around them too. A simple theory changed the way I play, and write.

However to get to the point were a theory can change your playing you have to be in the habbit of using theory. This means (in the beginning) learning your scales, mode, diatonic chords, and basic progression theories and then the more complex theories about how to handle them.

As for your question about Phrygian scales over a I-IV-V progression. Well truth is I wouldn't use a Phrygian over a I-IV-V, but now I ask you why not? Record a I-IV-V progression (C-F-G for example) and then play a C Phrygian scale over it. How does it sound? Do you like it.

The theoritical reason is the 4th of the Phrygian scale is sharped (F#) and would clash with the IV chord (F). You might use F Phrygian though. As helpful as this statement is if you were to try doing it you would hear this for yourself. And that is where theory can make the real difference.

Ok I'm going to stop my rant now before I go completely overboard. Thanks for reading and I hope this helps.

Mike

[HamerPlyr]

Re: Modes?

Yeah, it helps, Mike. Thanks. I've had guys explain something that I've played in theoretical terms to me, and it's always amazing. One of those "wow" things. "I didn't know it involved all of that, it just sounded good to me." I really should use those things as springboards to understanding more, I know that my playing would benefit from it. I always get bogged down and go back to playing what I know works. I need to make the commitment and do it. If I had a nickel for every time that I've had that thought...