Hammer on/pull off/bend lick speed

[PFDarkside]

At what tempo can you play these hammer on and bend licks cleanly? They are obviously some of the more basic rock licks.

I’m trying to improve my speed and remove my sloppiness. Are there any physiological tips to help in this area other than inching up with a metronome? I seem to get more tense the faster I try to play.

(I assume the photos attached)

[jeremy]

if you are getting tense, you need to practice more at a slower speed till it becomes almost second nature. usually i find i tense up when im pushing myself too far

[LLL]

I don't know what tempo, but I'd say "supa fast".

The second example (to me) reminds me of the ol' "Pagey" (Jimmy Page) style lick which I learned back in the 80's (Stairway etc). That's like programmed into my fret hand.


Regarding the second example:

You have two finger placement options for the bending finger and the hammer on-pull off finger:

- ring finger (bend) & pinkie (ho/po)

or if your fingers can stretch

- middle finger (bend) & ring (ho/po)

The latter is arguably easier (if you can do the stretch) because both fingers are stronger (vs pinkie).

EDIT:

"hammer on-pull off" can just be "pull off" or "hammer on" - depending on what you're doing

[Mincer]

Hammer on licks like that were always hard for me, since I tend to pick every note.

[PFDarkside]

if you are getting tense, you need to practice more at a slower speed till it becomes almost second nature. usually i find i tense up when im pushing myself too far

That’s what I figure. I’m focusing on precise movements with the metronome.

I don't know what tempo, but I'd say "supa fast".

The second example (to me) reminds me of the ol' "Pagey" (Jimmy Page) style lick which I learned back in the 80's (Stairway etc). That's like programmed into my fret hand.


Regarding the second example:

You have two finger placement options for the bending finger and the hammer on-pull off finger:

- ring finger (bend) & pinkie (ho/po)

or if your fingers can stretch

- middle finger (bend) & ring (ho/po)

The latter is arguably easier (if you can do the stretch) because both fingers are stronger (vs pinkie).

EDIT:

"hammer on-pull off" can just be "pull off" or "hammer on" - depending on what you're doing

On the final point, absolutely, I’m just thinking all these classic blues based licks that became the standard catalog of rock licks thanks to Page, Clapton, Lifeson, Frehley, etc. I’m decent up to about that point. Once things start to accelerate I’m having issues. I’m feeling like if I don’t sit down and put some actual practice time in I’ll be at this level for the rest of my life.

[LLL]

That’s what I figure. I’m focusing on precise movements with the metronome.


On the final point, absolutely, I’m just thinking all these classic blues based licks that became the standard catalog of rock licks thanks to Page, Clapton, Lifeson, Frehley, etc. I’m decent up to about that point. Once things start to accelerate I’m having issues. I’m feeling like if I don’t sit down and put some actual practice time in I’ll be at this level for the rest of my life.

Maybe there's a synchronization issue?
Don't know which hand isn't up to snuff (right or left) if that's the case.

Possible your picking isn't as fast as it should be, or your fretting/bending/HO-PO-ing isn't.

That's where the above-mentioned "start slow and build from there" comes in.

[Cynical]

One tip that most people will tell you "is wrong" but improved my playing greatly -- spend some time on the metronome *beyond* where you can play it accurately/comfortably, keeping up as best as you can. It was something I first saw Petrucci mention, with his logic being something along the lines of "the muscles work a bit differently at high speeds, so if you're following the advice of staying at a tempo where you can play cleanly and accurately, you're never pushing into the areas you're actually having problems with and never really improving there".

[PFDarkside]

One tip that most people will tell you "is wrong" but improved my playing greatly -- spend some time on the metronome *beyond* where you can play it accurately/comfortably, keeping up as best as you can. It was something I first saw Petrucci mention, with his logic being something along the lines of "the muscles work a bit differently at high speeds, so if you're following the advice of staying at a tempo where you can play cleanly and accurately, you're never pushing into the areas you're actually having problems with and never really improving there".

Is this the same concept as training to failure in weightlifting? I think there are shortcomings both physically but also on the mental-muscle connection that need to be made.

I think another big thing is when playing slowly you have a fluid movement abs when speeding up each movement needs to be smaller and transitions quicker. I need to break through a barrier and I’m not sure of that’s physical or mental, if that makes sense.

Right now I’m practicing the trolling exercises up and down the neck and it’s clear that 1-3 is much faster/cleaner than anything with 4. Probably since I’ve been playing licks like above for years they are a certain speed but other finger motions are slower since they are used much less frequently.

[Cynical]

I don't know enough about weightlifting to draw any comparisons; all I know is that starting doing it helped me a lot. Back when I was playing a lot of rhythm videogames, there was a saying in most of those communities -- "if a song is fast enough that you can't keep up, play something faster". A few rounds at an even higher tempo just seems to help you adjust your sense of "normal", and when you go back to what was previously "too fast", it seems a lot more comprehensible. The effect with guitar practice is similar IME.

[PFDarkside]

I don't know enough about weightlifting to draw any comparisons; all I know is that starting doing it helped me a lot. Back when I was playing a lot of rhythm videogames, there was a saying in most of those communities -- "if a song is fast enough that you can't keep up, play something faster". A few rounds at an even higher tempo just seems to help you adjust your sense of "normal", and when you go back to what was previously "too fast", it seems a lot more comprehensible. The effect with guitar practice is similar IME.

I’ve also seen exercises where you alternate between eighth/sixteenth or sixteenth/thirty second notes depending on tempo to push beyond the limit then momentarily return to the comfort zone.

I was hoping for a set of best practices. I even called my brother who is a performance music professor and he didn’t have much to add beyond the typical advice.

I guess either way I’m not going to stumble into playing faster or more accurately without practice.

[Phantasmagoria]

I don't do any exercises now (just play) ...but back when I did them, I pretty much tremolo picked as fast as I could () with my right hand and then tried to get my left hand patterns up to speed to be able to co-ordinate my finger movements with my corresponding pickstrokes. Took a while & sounded terrible haha...but eventually my left hand caught up. When you can pick every note at speed, you'll find that economy picking (with hammer-on's & pull-offs) comes pretty easy (and often sounds more expressive/nicer) ...at least that's how it worked out with me. Not 'the right way' to do things I guess (the exact opposite of starting slow and building up) ...but who cares as long as it worked

[MrTraste]

Do you have some pull-off sources where I can take few exercices? just struggling a bit with them. Hammer-ons are easier for me. Thanks.

[PFDarkside]

Here are a couple of Ben Eller Weekend Wankshop videos that I’m working on. They can be done alternate picking or legato.

[GrantWilson]

Originally Posted by MrGerald
I'm struggling with pull-offs and need to find some good exercises to write my essay fast for my guitar class

Hello,

I'm having online guitar lessons with a private instructor. You may also want to watch some of Guitareo videos >> Hammer Ons & Pull Offs Lesson. Or check 12 exercises by Robert Callus.

[Chistopher]

Another trick is seeing how fast you can play it while distracted. Maybe try it while watching TV, listening to the radio, or something.