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Robby Barnby diminished scale tutorial

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  • Robby Barnby diminished scale tutorial

    I'm not sure this should go here since it isn't my original clip, but it's such a useful video I wanted to link to it to help everyone out. This post is geared toward the intermediate rock guitarist.

    Robby Barnby is a virtuoso YouTube jazz guitarist. He does one of the best explanations of the tonic/dominant diminished scale I have ever seen.

    That said, you do need to have your theory together before you watch it because he moves very fast through the material.

    In rock and metal we often call it whole/half or half/whole diminished scale. There is a circumstance for using each. In rock and metal we usually shift down 1/2 step from the root and play minor third runs up the scale without a real, fuller understanding of what we are doing. Diminished chords are usually used between diatonic chords in a progression, usually 1/2 step up or down, to create tension and movement to the next chord.



    I learned a lot of things here, namely the relationship between diminished chords and dominant 7th chords as a way to strengthen tension and resolution. You can also use diminished chords as a way to change keys since you can change your root note in the diminished chord to take the song in another direction. I think of diminished chords like traffic roundabouts--you get on when you want and get off where you want.

    Half-diminished is more difficult for me to use unless it is diatonic. In my own work I often like to move half diminished chords chromatically down to full diminished chords by lowering the b7 to bb7, although I don't think this is correct as far as traditional jazz/fusion practice.

    The Barnby video shows why rock guitarists should learn chords not as shapes but as relationships. Take a shape and be able to identify what the chord is as the root note changes. It isn't enough just to say 1st/2nd/3rd inversion or a slash chord. Jens Larsen's jazz videos are good for teaching this too. The point is to eventually develop solid reharmonization and improvisation skills.

    As for what a reharm is, here is an example using 16 bit Legend of Zelda music: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ys0zXG_sZ4Y

    Until one masters all this, there is the plugin Scaler, which suggests alternate voicings/inversions/progressions and even entire reharmonizations as an aid to songwriting. If we need AI in the music industry as an assistant and not as a replacement, it is through something like Scaler, which becomes a musical thesaurus of sorts during the songwriting process.

    Check out Scaler 2 | https://bit.ly/3QG6zWRCheck out Plugin Deals | https://bit.ly/3QJ5vARAccess 4 million sounds w/ Loopcloud Free Trial | http://bit.ly/2MG...


    For me in metal this is all a way to escape the ubiquitous descending E minor/Andalusian cadence.

    It's not as hard as it seems once you understand more basic concepts and can build up to higher level content. Theory is often compared to math, yet I hate higher mathematics but love music theory. I just wish I had a better understanding of Bach-ian counterpoint. Fux's "Gradus ad Parnassum" doesn't make much sense in a modern context.

    If all this sets you down the path to discover your inner Holdsworth, keep in mind he had his own system of understanding the fretboard that was even more complex than traditional theory: https://youtu.be/wts2Mw6Nb5s

    Anyway, hope this helps. If this is not the right forum for this post please feel free to move it. I just hope it helps break everyone out of rock guitar clichés.


  • #2
    Diminished is an important scale for playing altered sounding stepwise lines (over dominant chords). Meaning if you're playing mostly small steps between each note, diminished gets its sound in easily, and introduces a new tonality.

    I have the diminished scale under my fingers and have the theory worked out. What I liked about the clip was the patterns he used to make musical lines. As it's been a goal of mine to make musical lines out of my altered scales instead of just running them. Good clip.


    About the Allan clip, he's crazy. He basically made up his altered chromatic approach with all those scales. I'm not ready to incorporate all that stuff yet, lol! Although I do play trad and not fusion.
    Last edited by Clint 55; 09-06-2023, 12:50 PM.
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    • #3
      Originally posted by Clint 55 View Post
      Diminished is an important scale for playing altered sounding stepwise lines (over dominant chords). Meaning if you're playing mostly small steps between each note, diminished gets its sound in easily, and introduces a new tonality.

      I have the diminished scale under my fingers and have the theory worked out. What I liked about the clip was the patterns he used to make musical lines. As it's been a goal of mine to make musical lines out of my altered scales instead of just running them. Good clip.


      About the Allan clip, he's crazy. He basically made up his altered chromatic approach with all those scales. I'm not ready to incorporate all that stuff yet, lol! Although I do play trad and not fusion.
      Clint 55 I like just enough fusion to create interesting tension/resolution in unexpected places.

      My real love is 90s Swedish melodic death metal (the kids later called it "melodeath," a term I hate). It's basically just Iron Maiden tuned lower and played faster with double bass and Cookie Monster vocals on top, but its ties to Swedish folk music lead my ear to interesting places.

      One is Paul O'Dette's rendition of John Dowland's lute renditions from the Elizabethan period. This would fit right in as a fade in/out to Swedish death metal.



      So most of what I listen to is closer to medieval fair sounding music than Holdsworth--much stronger tension and resolution in older music based on 5ths, so ideally suited for metal.

      But I also appreciate stuff like Weather Report for what it is.

      The interplay (and ego clash) between Zawinul and Jaco was something. I wish I knew as much about music as they did.



      Now that I have access to more complex drum samples and software like BFD, I like trying to create raw, dry drum samples like this instead of the overprocessed clicky triggered things we now hear in modern metal.

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      • #4
        Originally posted by Inflames626 View Post
        I like just enough fusion to create interesting tension/resolution in unexpected places.
        I think that's the ticket.
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        I bought them for you

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