How do you preserve your old songs for remixing/remastering?

[Inflames626]

Hi guys,
So I try to keep a computer for 10 years these days. I'll drop about $3,000 or so on a desktop PC that's good for gaming but also works as a DAW. To prolong its life I'll dual boot it, usually with a current and next gen OS (this PC I built back in 2019 and has Win10 on an SSD and Win11 on an NVME).

So I was thinking--bands these days often do remixes/remasters for anniversary editions of their old stuff.

With DAWs instead of master tapes, I'm not sure how we do that, mainly because everything is tied to the motherboard/OS relationship in a DAW system.

I'll explain a little bit. So you have your DAW software (Cakewalk by Bandlab in my case) on your boot drive usually along with your plugins, you have your drive you record to, and you have your drive on which you keep samples.

All of that is tied to the OS and the motherboard, which are tied to your plugins and hardware. All the dependencies and directory hierarchy can get pretty complicated (I can host 26 hard drives of various formats in this system--it's not EATX but it's close to it in terms of power and functionality.)

Now, eventually the OS stops being supported and you have to upgrade. This means you have to install your new OS, and then reinstall your DAW, plugins, and so on. It's a real pain to say the least.

Say you recorded something in 2003 and you want to remix/remaster for a 2023 re-release. Maybe you did it on WinXP and now you are working in Win11.

The most logical thing to do would be to keep your old system in storage and remix/remaster on it, but what if you have to move to a new system? (Say, mobo dies and is no longer being sold.)

Now, I know you can export stems and whatnot, or export as a bundled file. But those have a lot of stuff baked into them and you may not have exactly the same plugin versions on your new system that you had 20 years ago.

What if you wanted the kind of granularity and control you had on the original project file?

If you want to go back and tweak something for a remix/remaster at a very low level (down to the settings on the individual plugins)--is there an easy way to do that?

I've got two ideas mainly. One is a virtual machine, which is really resource intensive and not ideal because I'm not sure it could trick the hardware/software into thinking the 20 year old mobo is there.

The other is to do a hard drive clone like ones made by Aomei that strip away associations between the OS and mobo.

I tried this when Win7 was retired. I wanted to boot Win7 on my new hardware. I cloned the boot drive, stripped away the associations with the old mobo (an MSI made around 2009), and tried to install that drive into a 2019 system with an ASUS mobo.

It actually booted up and worked. Unfortunately, I couldn't use my mouse/keyboard because this new Asus mobo didn't have support for Win7 keyboard/mouse drivers. Otherwise I would have kept using Win7 whenever I wanted to tweak my old stuff in my DAW (Sonar X2 Producer I think).

So what's happening is about every 10 years I lose access to my old project files because OSes and hardware move on and it's difficult to emulate them on newer machines.

Do you guys have any solutions for this? Get a Mac is not applicable here.

Thanks.

[Mincer]

Honestly, I don't think much about it. I am not likely to remix or remaster anything- I'd rather spend my time moving forward. If it is a project that someone else recorded, I leave it to them to archive it. But once I am done with a project, I am not interested in returning to it.

[beaubrummels]

I keep the hardware necessary to re-transfer it later. I have a couple computers locked down at a particular version of OS and software and can always retransfer to a newer format later. Also have my old tape machines, ADAT and DAT, to retransfer to newer formats when they come out.

[GuitarStv]

I'm with Mincer. No point living in the past - I'm more inclined write a new song, or at the very least re-record it.

[Inflames626]

I keep the hardware necessary to re-transfer it later. I have a couple computers locked down at a particular version of OS and software and can always retransfer to a newer format later. Also have my old tape machines, ADAT and DAT, to retransfer to newer formats when they come out.

beaubrummels , could you elaborate a little bit on your transfer process?

To me this would be trying to get updated versions of the same DAW, plugins, etc. Sometimes I am able to keep the same plugins--I still use Pod Farm Platinum for my main rhythm sound and that's 10+ years old. But if it doesn't run on newer software, you have to go to something different.

Essentially what I'm wanting to do is keep the project file as accessible for editing as it was when I first recorded it, but have it running on new hardware, without the time consuming reinstalls, etc.

If it were just remixing, you could just export the stems into a new project and automate when needed, but the effects would be baked in. If it were remastering, you could just save the unmastered mix.

You could do just DIs, but then you'd have to rebuild the tone from the ground up.

I'm thinking things like "the feedback on the digital delay in Waves was at 37% at :42 on the timer. I think I'll try it at 64% and then 23% to see which one I like for the new version." That close to the original project.

I'm thinking along the lines of the Megadeth remasters from 2004. Mustaine changed a bunch of stuff to the point where it sounded like effects and instruments were added. Of course, he was working from the 80s-90s master tapes. I'm sure that's easier than working with a DAW since you just play the masters back through a console and don't need new hardware.

The thing is he kept much of the original tone, etc., but there were a lot of wet effects like reverb added in places, in addition to tweaking levels and of course it was remastered so it was louder.

Most people, myself included, prefer the originals. But we have heard them for so much longer. Yet it's supposedly how Mustaine originally wanted them to sound.

It's almost as close to re-recording as one can get without re-recording.

It also reminds me of George Lucas adding so much CGI to the original Star Wars films for the DVD release back in 97.

[El Dunco]

I back up both the sessions and individual raw wavs in at least three places so even if there isn’t a device compatible with the project, anything will accept the wavs, even my BOSS 2003 16 track digital all in one unit.

I’m remixing our first album (it was AJFA dry, really needed a fuller low end). Both the device and the project file are still exactly as I left them 10 years ago. The engineering was on point and with my new mixing abilities, now they sound how I always wanted them to.

I have the umastered mixes for the second which were fine but the ME I paid over $300 to master it squashed the drums, made the guitars too loud by messing with the stereo image, buried the synths so mastering it properly brings out the best in it.

[Inflames626]

I back up both the sessions and individual raw wavs in at least three places so even if there isn’t a device compatible with the project, anything will accept the wavs, even my BOSS 2003 16 track digital all in one unit.

I’m remixing our first album (it was AJFA dry, really needed a fuller low end). Both the device and the project file are still exactly as I left them 10 years ago. The engineering was on point and with my new mixing abilities, now they sound how I always wanted them to.

I have the umastered mixes for the second which were fine but the ME I paid over $300 to master it squashed the drums, made the guitars too loud by messing with the stereo image, buried the synths so mastering it properly brings out the best in it.

"Both the device and the project file are still exactly as I left them 10 years ago."

So you keep the same device and just remix directly on it? What if something happens to the device but not the hard drives?

I would be fine simply keeping the wavs for a remix/remaster with the exception that the tones/effects are baked into them and you can't alter the plugin settings.

Cakewalk has a bundled file type (.cwb) which includes everything in the project, but all of these would depend upon plugins and file hierarchies on the new system being the the same as on the old system. These hierarchies would depend upon the mobo and OS connection.

The problem is everything is tied to the mobo.

One needs to be able to take an OS, clone the boot drive, put it on any mobo, and all the file associations are intact. Basically a plug and play DAW. Take the hard drives from one system, connect to another, and maybe change where in your DAW to find various files, and it works with all settings the same as they were on the other machine.

But Microsoft would never allow this because mobo identifiers, sometimes to individual mobos and not just the same model, are how they guarantee licensing and copy protection.

[Inflames626]

What was ridiculous on my new system is something as simple as a Win7 keyboard and mouse driver should not cease to be supported in a new mobo since the new drivers just build on the old ones. What's next? Stopping support for VGA 256 colors when 8k monitors become common?

It's basically planned obsolescence even when the old system does fine. MS wants you on a new OS every 5 years when one every 10 years is fine. The only reason why I insist on a new system is it seems as PCs get older crashes and BSODs become more common. And after an OS stops being supported you can't just go online and run system file checker to make sure your install isn't corrupt.

Stuff like capacitors wear out even on systems that are well cared for or not even booted up in years. Plans have to be made for how to get access to old projects on new systems.

[El Dunco]

"Both the device and the project file are still exactly as I left them 10 years ago."

So you keep the same device and just remix directly on it? What if something happens to the device but not the hard drives?

I would be fine simply keeping the wavs for a remix/remaster with the exception that the tones/effects are baked into them and you can't alter the plugin settings.

Cakewalk has a bundled file type (.cwb) which includes everything in the project, but all of these would depend upon plugins and file hierarchies on the new system being the the same as on the old system. These hierarchies would depend upon the mobo and OS connection.

The problem is everything is tied to the mobo.

One needs to be able to take an OS, clone the boot drive, put it on any mobo, and all the file associations are intact. Basically a plug and play DAW. Take the hard drives from one system, connect to another, and maybe change where in your DAW to find various files, and it works with all settings the same as they were on the other machine.

But Microsoft would never allow this because mobo identifiers, sometimes to individual mobos and not just the same model, are how they guarantee licensing and copy protection.

They’re all backed up anyway but fortunately my machine is still running perfectly so I didn’t have to. Worst case scenario, I have all the software and drivers so if I needed a brand new machine, so long as all the right plugins and the same or compatible DAW is installed, the session file will recall them and their settings.

I use mic’d guitar sounds for final arrangements. If I wasn’t I would still commit to a guitar sound and bake that in. I’m a bit old-school where as long as all the raw tracks are available, it doesn’t take me long to call up sounds similar to where I had them, if not better.

No-one wants to use backups, it never won’t be a PITA, but it’s better than losing the lot. It’s why I don’t buy it when major label bands like U2 claim they “lost an entire album.” My lecturer at sound production school said “if it isn’t backed up in three places, it isn’t backed up.”