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  • Rhythm Guitar Question

    Hey bros,

    Whilst I was jamming with this drummer and other guitar player, the drummer kept telling me that I was "rushing." I think that he was correct in some situations, and I have a tendency to rush when nervous, or when things are slow.

    However, many times I *thought* that I was playing in the pocket from a 80s Metal rhythm guitar perspective. What I mean, is that, to my ears, there are many occasions in that genre where the rhythm guitar leads the first beat, maybe up to a 16th note. I've noticed this in particular with Lynch when he is riffing, and I've noticed it with Priest, Dio, etc. I mention those artists since that's what we were playing. I think it's a technique used to create the illusion of speed in a mid or down-tempo song, as well as to build tension for the drum beat on 1. My ears tell me that during these occasions the bass and drum are in sync on the 1st beat, but the rhythm guitar might be "early". Noticeable to some, not to others perhaps.

    In our case, we would be playing "In My Dreams" for instance. During the intro riff, and even during some of the other parts, I would be just a smidge ahead of the 1st beat while the other guitar player and the drummer were hitting square on 1. Then I'd get the signal that I'm rushing, and think "really?? man sounds right to me."

    After giving some of these artists a spin, I think I'm right. I never noticed it before, never noticed it in my playing, but I think it's true. I think it is deeply ingrained when I play certain songs from that era.

    Thoughts?
    Originally posted by Scott_F
    On that day, should I ever be so unlucky, I will expect an unholy assault of pure metal mayhem attacking all my senses with a little tiny voice in the background screaming Effing Hails!

  • #2
    Re: Rhythm Guitar Question

    It is a typical rock guitarist syndrome
    I used to jam alot with my drummers, just to get in shape before hitting out.
    I do not count when I play, or I will get as stiff as German military march...hehe
    Got along with hearing where I am instead, and I also took a two year tour in hell with a gospelchoir, and that was great for the timesense, and the different accents of the beat, it needed to be deadtight, so I locked religiously up with the bassplayer and the drums.
    Good two years spent, changed my sense, sadly I am now rusty as ever again...sigh.
    Anyways listen to some Dann Huff and Landau, those cats have developed rhythm skills that are great.
    And they fit in everywhere.
    Jam with drummers from different backgrounds, it is great!
    Hope that this made any sense

    Comment


    • #3
      Re: Rhythm Guitar Question

      Sometimes that kind of thing makes sense intellectually, but when it comes to sound and feel it just doesn't work. And it will be different with different players, at different times of the day, during different phases of the moon...

      Comment


      • #4
        Re: Rhythm Guitar Question

        The solution is easy ...

        Next time someone accuses you of being early, you accuse them of being late, then kick over a couple of cymbal stands and storm out!

        Seriously, tho ...
        Glenn Tipton's riffing is famous for coming in a hair ahead of the downbeat. It's just a particular writing style. If everyone else is coming in RIGHT at the downbeat, and you didn't write the tune, I would ajust accordingly. If you DID write the tune, then tell em to stop slacking and get on the ball!!

        Generally, stuff played right on the beat sounds a bit mechanical imo.
        Why don't you take your little Cobra Kais and get outta here?!
        My collaborative PROGRESSIVE ROCK PROJECT, As Follows.

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        • #5
          Re: Rhythm Guitar Question

          /\Wise words from Ben.

          Matt: You might be right; you might not.

          Best suggestion I can offer is that when playing with others, find a place to "fit." I agree that sometimes the other "musicians" don't understand certain musical concepts, though. Regardless, if we don't "fit" with them, it will always be mechanical and stilted sounding.

          I get compliments every time I play keyboard in church. I am nowhere near the pianist of the others; but I am a better keyboardist. I experiment with different sounds (not TOO much), and find a place to fit in the songs. I make certain that I can hear ALL of the other instruments in my monitor, and I play around THEM. If they are busy, I might not play at all. If they are leaving lots of space, or fail to play practiced parts, I fill in. Piano, horns, organs, strings, whatever seems to "fit."
          Romans 3:23; 6:23; 5:8; 10:13; 10:9-10

          Teknon Theou
          https://youtube.com/channel/UCo848I2...e4jKB5DNZ4Y7hs
          Complaining that there are hypocrites in church is like complaining that fat people use the gym. Where else would you have them be?

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          • #6
            Re: Rhythm Guitar Question

            Above all...swing
            Be funky when ever you can, nothing like a bada$$ rhythm, just listen good ole Eddie Van der I played my a$$ off...hehe

            Comment


            • #7
              Re: Rhythm Guitar Question

              You Guys Rock,

              Thanks.
              Originally posted by Scott_F
              On that day, should I ever be so unlucky, I will expect an unholy assault of pure metal mayhem attacking all my senses with a little tiny voice in the background screaming Effing Hails!

              Comment


              • #8
                Re: Rhythm Guitar Question

                Originally posted by Rid
                It is a typical rock guitarist syndrome
                I used to jam alot with my drummers, just to get in shape before hitting out.
                I do not count when I play, or I will get as stiff as German military march...hehe
                Got along with hearing where I am instead, and I also took a two year tour in hell with a gospelchoir, and that was great for the timesense, and the different accents of the beat, it needed to be deadtight, so I locked religiously up with the bassplayer and the drums.
                Good two years spent, changed my sense, sadly I am now rusty as ever again...sigh.
                Anyways listen to some Dann Huff and Landau, those cats have developed rhythm skills that are great.
                And they fit in everywhere.
                Jam with drummers from different backgrounds, it is great!
                Hope that this made any sense

                are the clips of those guys you mentione somwhere? I can't find any
                Fender Stratocaster - EMG 81/85 (camo)
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                Comment


                • #9
                  Re: Rhythm Guitar Question

                  Clips of Huff and Landau, those guys have played on a ton of albums at the least

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Re: Rhythm Guitar Question

                    did you tell them your thoughts? if so, how did they react .... you seem to have your points well reasoned (and i tend to agree with you) ... but if they want it square on the one, you can either give it to them or let them find someone else ...

                    hope it works out the way you want it to

                    cheers
                    t4d
                    gear list in profile

                    "no seymour - no tone ... know seymour - know tone!"

                    Is it not the glory of the people of America that, whilst they have paid a decent regard to the opinions of former times and other nations, they have not suffered a blind veneration for antiquity, for custom, or for names, to overrule the suggestions of their own good sense, the knowledge of their own situation, and the lessons of their own experience?" - James Madison - Federalist #14

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