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Thread: The Counterfeiters are Getting Better!

  1. #61
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    Default Re: The Counterfeiters are Getting Better!

    Quote Originally Posted by ehdwuld View Post
    But what guitar player wants to check an rfid tag to check a pickup
    And who wants to buy a device just to check for counterfeiting
    Sirius
    Well, NFC tags are a sort RFID chips if I am not mistaken and NFC is a pretty much ubiqitous feature of smartphones, so it really wouldn't take much of an effort... I'm pretty sure a simple app should be able to do the trick

    And who would use it? Those who cannot sleep at night until they are sure that they got what they paid for. Not every guitar play fo' sure, but quite many would.
    Last edited by nexion218; 01-10-2020 at 03:34 AM.

  2. #62
    Ultimate Tone Member BeKindRewind's Avatar
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    Default Re: The Counterfeiters are Getting Better!

    NFC tags are really easy to copy and counterfeit though aren't they ?

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  3. #63
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    Default Re: The Counterfeiters are Getting Better!

    Quote Originally Posted by BeKindRewind View Post
    NFC tags are really easy to copy and counterfeit though aren't they ?

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    No idea, really. It's high freq radio waves, so if that is a no-go, then RFID is a no-go alltogether I believe. As I understand the benefit of the NFC chip is that it can act both as tag and reader and the tag can have a set of commands taht way instructing the reader device. I'd imagine that for example having the S/N info in a tag which instructs a dedicated app to check that S/N against a secure database would make it a tad harder to produce fakes.

  4. #64
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    Default Re: The Counterfeiters are Getting Better!

    The end user probably won't check/care if there are microscopic numbers on there in the end. For instance, I bought an Eastman. It comes with Antiquities. I never took them apart to see if they are real. I assume they are, they sound great, and I ain't got that kind of time. Eastman probably isn't lying to me, but other guitars by less scrupulous companies (especially vanity companies in the far east) might use counterfeit parts.
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  5. #65
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    Default Re: The Counterfeiters are Getting Better!

    Quote Originally Posted by BeKindRewind View Post
    NFC tags are really easy to copy and counterfeit though aren't they ?

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    An RFID tag is just a way to store data in a small, electronically accessible space. The data it contains could be anything; "My serial # is XXX" to "Hi dad!". RFID chips are inexpensive enough that some retailers incorporate them into price tags.

    If the counterfeiter found a lack of RFID tagging to be an obstacle, all they'd have to do is purchase a legitimate product, read the tag, program their (very cheap) tags to match and place them on the counterfeit. One more step, certainly, but by no means an impossible one.

    Larry

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    Default Re: The Counterfeiters are Getting Better!

    The end user probably won't check/care if there are microscopic numbers on there in the end. For instance, I bought an Eastman. It comes with Antiquities. I never took them apart to see if they are real. I assume they are, they sound great, and I ain't got that kind of time. Eastman probably isn't lying to me, but other guitars by less scrupulous companies (especially vanity companies in the far east) might use counterfeit parts.
    And we are STILL waiting to hear those golden vibes, Dave....

  7. #67
    Mojo's Minions Masta' C's Avatar
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    Default Re: The Counterfeiters are Getting Better!

    • Change packaging design = "too much effort and time"
    • Microprint the bobbins = "adds unnecessary steps to production"
    • Holographic decals = "the counterfeiters will just counterfeit the decal"
    • RFID/NFC = "no one will ever check them"
    • Set up a consumer warning page with examples = "the counterfeiters will be able to make better counterfeits"



    It's always easiest to do absolutely nothing. Unfortunately, the problem is only going to get worse.
    Last edited by Masta' C; 01-10-2020 at 09:39 AM.

  8. #68
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    Default Re: The Counterfeiters are Getting Better!

    Quote Originally Posted by masta' c View Post
    • Change packaging design = "too much effort and time"
    • Microprint the bobbins = "adds unnecessary steps to production"
    • Holographic decals = "the counterfeiters will just counterfeit the decal"
    • RFID/NFC = "no one will ever check them"
    • Set up a consumer warning page with examples = "the counterfeiters will be able to make better counterfeits"



    It's always easiest to do absolutely nothing. Unfortunately, the problem is only going to get worse.
    I agree something needs to be done or it's only gonna get worse. Totally different product, but D'Addario has the number verification thing and I'm guessing that has worked okay. Doesn't hurt that verifying also gives award points towards merch purchases. Also, EMG started the hologram or whatever thing a few years back. I'd absolutely have no problem taking the time to verify/register Duncan pickups especially after reading this thread.

  9. #69
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    Default Re: The Counterfeiters are Getting Better!

    Easier still is a list of authorized sellers
    And only buy from them

    Oh wait there is a list somewhere right?

    On used pickups, buyer beware
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    Default Re: The Counterfeiters are Getting Better!

    Quote Originally Posted by ehdwuld View Post
    Easier still is a list of authorized sellers
    And only buy from them

    Oh wait there is a list somewhere right?

    On used pickups, buyer beware
    This is always the easiest thing to do.
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  11. #71
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    Default Re: The Counterfeiters are Getting Better!

    Quote Originally Posted by masta' c View Post
    • Change packaging design = "too much effort and time"
    • Microprint the bobbins = "adds unnecessary steps to production"
    • Holographic decals = "the counterfeiters will just counterfeit the decal"
    • RFID/NFC = "no one will ever check them"
    • Set up a consumer warning page with examples = "the counterfeiters will be able to make better counterfeits"



    It's always easiest to do absolutely nothing. Unfortunately, the problem is only going to get worse.
    Or, "sales have been steady despite counterfeiting"

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    Default Re: The Counterfeiters are Getting Better!

    Quote Originally Posted by PicoRiveraTele View Post
    Or, "sales have been steady despite counterfeiting"
    Well, that is assuming a company is aware and makes that choice. I don't ever think that is the case. I would think anyone who has a product illegally copied treats this as a major concern. Just because the end user doesn't see it doesn't mean it isn't happening. In the end, there are 2 victims here: the company being copied and the end user. In some cases, the end user doesn't care (cool! $5 Ray Bans!), and in some cases they don't know until something goes wrong.
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  13. #73
    A Ficus ehdwuld's Avatar
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    Default Re: The Counterfeiters are Getting Better!

    There was one industrial control company that sent out an email about counterfeit controls being made in south Asia
    They were covering their own QC problems. Seems some bad units had made it out in such quantity they couldn't afford a recall
    So the claimed counterfeit in order to absolve themselves

    Not sayin anything like is the case here

    I think that many of the Gibson bashers may have had trouble with the Asian replicas
    And thought it was Gibson
    EHD
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  14. #74
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    Default Re: The Counterfeiters are Getting Better!

    The newest generation of fake SD's are showing up in the wild. Here's a recent post: LINK

    And here are pics of the pickups. I bet 99% of the readers of this thread wouldn't even know to question them. Yes, even the bottoms are engraved with realistic SD logos!





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    Default Re: The Counterfeiters are Getting Better!

    [QUOTE=Masta' C;4397536]The newest generation of fake SD's are showing up in the wild. Here's a recent post: LINK

    I ordered a couple vintage stack plus on eBay today for Squid Music, 100% positive with something like 60,000 feedback. I didnít check if they were authorized. Whatís the likelihood of counterfeits unwittingly getting into the stock of any of these large eBay dealers?

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    Default Re: The Counterfeiters are Getting Better!

    [QUOTE=hwkremer;4397636]
    Quote Originally Posted by Masta' C View Post
    The newest generation of fake SD's are showing up in the wild. Here's a recent post: LINK

    I ordered a couple vintage stack plus on eBay today for Squid Music, 100% positive with something like 60,000 feedback. I didnít check if they were authorized. Whatís the likelihood of counterfeits unwittingly getting into the stock of any of these large eBay dealers?
    In my opinion I wouldn't worry about it in this point in time, those sellers would take care of business and stamp it out pretty quick because they work really hard to maintain their 100% feedback.

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  17. #77
    Mojo's Minions Masta' C's Avatar
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    Default Re: The Counterfeiters are Getting Better!

    You guys are doing some weird stuff with your quotes...makes the question look like it was from me, when it wasn't

    Squid Music is a proper Seymour Duncan dealer. I used to visit them regularly when I lived in California. That said, there's no sense asking here about what dealers are legit or not. If they sell a large variety of SD products and are moving lots of product with near-perfect feedback, you're probably "ok". Plus, you can still check a dealer's status even after you've made a purchase. You can also reach out to the dealer and/or SD directly if you want to make sure.

    These fakes are going to come primarily from smaller sellers on eBay/Reverb, from Asian sites selling SD parts at a discount, and from the secondhand market, as we've seen in my last post. I would also be wary of marketplace platforms where nameless sellers collect like Amazon, etc.

    At the moment, only the JB, '59, Jazz, Full Shred, and Blackouts models seem to be at the mercy of fairly realistic looking counterfeits. There was a suspicious Slash model that popped up a while back, but I don't know where that went.
    Last edited by Masta' C; 02-20-2020 at 06:55 PM.

  18. #78
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    Default Re: The Counterfeiters are Getting Better!

    I agree. Do some research to know who you are buying from. It gets harder with used pickups. But as we are seeing, used, fake pickups aren't even much cheaper. So again, we all just have to learn as much as we can before making a purchase.
    Dave, Ambassador/Writer/Artist for Seymour Duncan

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  19. #79
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    Default Re: The Counterfeiters are Getting Better!

    Since there doesn't appear to be any way of distinguishing the fake ones from the real ones, it's probably prudent to just stop buying any SD products known to have these clones. Specifically the JB, '59, Jazz, Full Shred, and Blackouts should be off your buying radar for the moment. You might be OK buying new from a reputable dealer - but given the very close replication of all visible indicators I'd say it's becoming a risk and likely to be unsafe to do so soon.
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  20. #80
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    Default Re: The Counterfeiters are Getting Better!

    I have several graphic novels I've published and they're ALL counterfeited in the Far East. You can walk into markets there and buy nearly ANYTHING you can think of as a counterfeit. From Star Wars DVDs to Madden Football games to iRobot floor cleaners to music equipment etc. It's like the wild west, where there is ZERO enforcement of anyone's IP protections (patents, trademarks, copyrights, etc.) and the culture is essentially "if you can recreate it, you can make money on it".

    There's virtually no way for Seymour Duncan, EMG, Dimarzio or even a larger company like Fender to do anything about it. If Disney can't stop it, no one in the music instrument industry has a chance.

    Like pople said upstream, it's just a buyer beware scenario and that's the best we can do.

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