1 Push Pull or 2?

[caldo]

Hello everyone,

I would be grateful if someone could give me some advice regarding some work I want to do on my old Schecter c-1 (two humbuckers, 1 Volume, 1 Tone, 3 way Toggle switch)

I have just bought the Pegasus / Sentient set to put in it but I'd like to add the option to split the coils. Specifically the slug side of the Pegasus (bridge) and the Screw side of the Sentient (neck). From what I have been able to gather whilst reading the forum this should give me a humbucking middle position when both are split (if I have understood this correctly).

My main question is : Would I be better off using a separate push pull for each individual pickup or just the one to split them both at the same time? I am wondering if this matters at all regarding being able to choose which coil stays active.

Also, how would I go about the wiring to choose the desired coils? Cant seem to find this information in the wiring diagrams provided on the Duncan site.

Thanks.

 

[vinnie1971]

Re: 1 Push Pull or 2?

Separate splits is the way to go. There's a certain magic to split bridge but neck is humbucker.
Make sure to split the coils by using a 4.7k resistor to ground the cut coil. This leaves a tiny amount of signal so the active coil doesn't sound so thin and puny. It will give you neat perfect single coil tone that you will ever get from splitting humbuckers. Plus not so much volume loss and a tiny bit less hum.


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[vinnie1971]

1 Push Pull or 2?

Here's the diagram to get humbucking when both are split and selected.

My advice bridge split so slug is active, neck split so that screw is active. There's s kit written why tonally this is best by people way more knowledgeable than me, but it means the bridge won't be really thin and shrill, and you get humbucking in middle position. I have splits on my guitars and tried inner, outer and humbucking split. Humbucking split in my opinion is best not just for cancelling hum, it gives the best split sounds too, although I do like both outer splits at the same time too, but bridge on its own like that, not so much.

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[caldo]

Re: 1 Push Pull or 2?

Separate splits is the way to go. There's a certain magic to split bridge but neck is humbucker.
Make sure to split the coils by using a 4.7k resistor to ground the cut coil. This leaves a tiny amount of signal so the active coil doesn't sound so thin and puny. It will give you neat perfect single coil tone that you will ever get from splitting humbuckers. Plus not so much volume loss and a tiny bit less hum.


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Thanks Vinnie. This is most helpful. The information about adding a resistor is very interesting too. I will definitely have to look into that.

 

[vinnie1971]

1 Push Pull or 2?

Thanks Vinnie. This is most helpful. The information about adding a resistor is very interesting too. I will definitely have to look into that.

Welcome. That's exactly what I have done with my APH1s that are now in my Dearmond

I also have a varitone- the tone control determines the depth of the varitone and it's a push pull so I can use varitone as a cap selector for the tone control as a regular tone control or pull up to ground via a mouser 1.5H inductor.

The fat metal switch is phase reversal on the neck pickup - 2 volumes gives nice control to blend the out of phase sound.

Vintage custom classic look:

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[caldo]

Re: 1 Push Pull or 2?

Now that looks like a fancy setup! Somewhat over my head at the moment but I'm certainly learning a lot round these parts.

Glad I asked the question. I think can just about understand the concept of adding the resistor at least and you have sold me on the 2 push pulls instead of 1. More options are always gonna be better than less. Is the 4.7k the only option with regards to how much resistance would suit me best? I know its probably down to personal preference but does the pickups output play a part in choosing more or less resistance?

As you can probably tell I have very little knowledge of the finer details of a guitars electronics. I have always just played the things! Soldered in a few pickups in my time like the Tom Anderson H3 and Dimarzio Fred (which I've been using in the neck position) I'm gonna be taking out to do this but that's about as far as it has gone up until now.

 

[vinnie1971]

Re: 1 Push Pull or 2?

Now that looks like a fancy setup! Somewhat over my head at the moment but I'm certainly learning a lot round these parts.

Glad I asked the question. I think can just about understand the concept of adding the resistor at least and you have sold me on the 2 push pulls instead of 1. More options are always gonna be better than less. Is the 4.7k the only option with regards to how much resistance would suit me best? I know its probably down to personal preference but does the pickups output play a part in choosing more or less resistance?

As you can probably tell I have very little knowledge of the finer details of a guitars electronics. I have always just played the things! Soldered in a few pickups in my time like the Tom Anderson H3 and Dimarzio Fred (which I've been using in the neck position) I'm gonna be taking out to do this but that's about as far as it has gone up until now.

If they are high output probably 1k or 2k is fine. But around 7k to 12k I find anything less than 4.7k a bit thin. 10K sounds closer to a humbucker - kind of in between tone. Stay below 5k. Experiment- I did. I usually loop one end of the resistor through the push pull terminal nearest the pot end of the push pull so pull engages the split, and then the other end in the little hole in the side where the push pull body meets the pot body, time blob of solder to easily detach and try different values.


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[caldo]

Re: 1 Push Pull or 2?

They are pretty moderate output pickups. The Sentient is 7.8 DCR whilst the Pegasus is 12.6.

Sounds like a 4.7k resistor should do the trick.

Thanks again man.

 

[vinnie1971]

1 Push Pull or 2?

4.7 will be good, I used them in Gibson 490R and 498T which has similar DCR to your pickups . I tried 2k on the 498t but DCR is not a measure of output in its own and between them the pups are similar in output even though DCR says otherwise


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[caldo]

Re: 1 Push Pull or 2?

Is there any specific power rating that would be more suitable? I'm looking now and I notice there are different ratings to the resistors. Some are 1watt, some are 2 etc.

 

[Mincer]

Re: 1 Push Pull or 2?

The only thing about separate splits that I don't like is that it is a lot harder to get from one sound to another. You have a few moves to get there...this isn't a problem if you are using one sound for the whole song, but if you switch a lot, it becomes a bit of a pain- especially with push/pulls. Sometimes it is hard to grab those knobs quickly. Push/push is better, but you don't see those nearly enough.

 

[vinnie1971]

Re: 1 Push Pull or 2?

The only thing about separate splits that I don't like is that it is a lot harder to get from one sound to another. You have a few moves to get there...this isn't a problem if you are using one sound for the whole song, but if you switch a lot, it becomes a bit of a pain- especially with push/pulls. Sometimes it is hard to grab those knobs quickly. Push/push is better, but you don't see those nearly enough.

I got push push on my fat HSH strat, mostly because push pulls are so flush I can't pull them up on a strat! I find big brass knurled knobs work really well in push pulls though. Plastic knobs are fiddly.


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[caldo]

Re: 1 Push Pull or 2?

The only thing about separate splits that I don't like is that it is a lot harder to get from one sound to another. You have a few moves to get there...this isn't a problem if you are using one sound for the whole song, but if you switch a lot, it becomes a bit of a pain- especially with push/pulls. Sometimes it is hard to grab those knobs quickly. Push/push is better, but you don't see those nearly enough.

I did think about this also. I think the extra options win out for me in the end. In certain situations it might be better to have the splits seperate for example you might want to go from bridge humbucker to neck split in which case you could set that before starting a song and achive it with just a flick of the selector switch whereas if they were split on the same pot there would be an extra move in there.

I read about push push pots breaking down and wearing out faster which put me off the idea. Same as the triple shots which some people had problems with. I dont have any first hand experience with either I may add, just what I have read. My pots are pretty grippy and should be easy enough to yank on thankfully.

Any advice on my earlier resistor query vinnie? Or does it not matter?

 

[vinnie1971]

Re: 1 Push Pull or 2?

I did think about this also. I think the extra options win out for me in the end. In certain situations it might be better to have the splits seperate for example you might want to go from bridge humbucker to neck split in which case you could set that before starting a song and achive it with just a flick of the selector switch whereas if they were split on the same pot there would be an extra move in there.

I read about push push pots breaking down and wearing out faster which put me off the idea. Same as the triple shots which some people had problems with. I dont have any first hand experience with either I may add, just what I have read. My pots are pretty grippy and should be easy enough to yank on thankfully.

Any advice on my earlier resistor query vinnie? Or does it not matter?

It does not matter the voltage/wattage in s guitar is so low. I think mine are various some 1 watt some 0.25 watt. Doesn't matter.


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[PFDarkside]

Re: 1 Push Pull or 2?

It's sometimes nice to have one set to split for rhythm then one set to full for lead, and a simple flip of the switch gives you preset tones.

 

[vinnie1971]

Re: 1 Push Pull or 2?

It's sometimes nice to have one set to split for rhythm then one set to full for lead, and a simple flip of the switch gives you preset tones.

And the volume boost is good if lead is on humbucker mode [emoji1360]


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[Mincer]

Re: 1 Push Pull or 2?

Fender's S1 switches, although expensive, work really well and seem to hold up. Much easier to use than trying to grab a regular Strat knob and pull on it.