LucidInterval
New member
Re: 100 watt amps. Do you really need that much power?
http://www.petersamps.com/next.htm
I am thinking about a 10 watt wolverine.
http://www.petersamps.com/next.htm
I am thinking about a 10 watt wolverine.
100 watt amps. Do you really need that much power?
- Thread starter Mike M.
- Start date
Gearjoneser
Gear Ho
Re: 100 watt amps. Do you really need that much power?
I love all amps, for what they all do. I know you guys are sick of all the Bogner talk here, but I think that sucker is rated at 120W.
The only difference is that Reinholdt Bogner is the amplifier engineering equivalent of Rupert Neve. He's done what no other amp builder has done...
Create a multichannel amp that sounds cranked at any volume level you choose. Even the EQ is laid out like a Neve mixing console. 12 is neutral, and everything else subtracts or adds. He runs the power section hard at all times, and designed a better preamp section that ANY other amp builder in history. Have you seen any preamp other than the Bogner Fish that sells used for over $2500? NO. That's why.
I agree that most 100W amps are overkill for almost any situation, but like Twilight Odyssey said, they have a bigger dynamic range, provided you're utilizing it. For most intents and purposes, a 50W halfstack is as much as you'll ever need. Right now, I'm in a loud modern rock band similar to Audioslave, Matchbox 20, or Tonic. A halfstack is the right tool for that job.
With the Bogner, I have all the glassy headroom I need for it's clean channel,
and the two overdrive channels sound just like Reinholdt Bogner describes it on his website "like the sound of thick rope stretching" at all volumes.
On this amp, you can run the master at 3 or 4 and sound like a dimed 40W amp. If I play a smaller gig, and still need the Ecstasy's versatility,
I use my Bogner 2-12 to push less air. Nothing sounds better to me than
that amp with the 4-12, turned up to 5. It'll huff and puff and blow your house into sh!tdust, but in a beautiful way. :laugh2:
I love all amps, for what they all do. I know you guys are sick of all the Bogner talk here, but I think that sucker is rated at 120W.
The only difference is that Reinholdt Bogner is the amplifier engineering equivalent of Rupert Neve. He's done what no other amp builder has done...
Create a multichannel amp that sounds cranked at any volume level you choose. Even the EQ is laid out like a Neve mixing console. 12 is neutral, and everything else subtracts or adds. He runs the power section hard at all times, and designed a better preamp section that ANY other amp builder in history. Have you seen any preamp other than the Bogner Fish that sells used for over $2500? NO. That's why.
I agree that most 100W amps are overkill for almost any situation, but like Twilight Odyssey said, they have a bigger dynamic range, provided you're utilizing it. For most intents and purposes, a 50W halfstack is as much as you'll ever need. Right now, I'm in a loud modern rock band similar to Audioslave, Matchbox 20, or Tonic. A halfstack is the right tool for that job.
With the Bogner, I have all the glassy headroom I need for it's clean channel,
and the two overdrive channels sound just like Reinholdt Bogner describes it on his website "like the sound of thick rope stretching" at all volumes.
On this amp, you can run the master at 3 or 4 and sound like a dimed 40W amp. If I play a smaller gig, and still need the Ecstasy's versatility,
I use my Bogner 2-12 to push less air. Nothing sounds better to me than
that amp with the 4-12, turned up to 5. It'll huff and puff and blow your house into sh!tdust, but in a beautiful way. :laugh2:
Norman_T
New member
Re: 100 watt amps. Do you really need that much power?
Thanks for the compliment - yes it is one of my favourite Hamer guitars (I have got 4 of them). Still not received the new pickguard as yet but probably waiting somewhere in customs or hopefully going to be delivered in the next few days. I am waiting anxiously for this to arrive so that I can try it out in my '82 JV (jap Vintage) strat. Let you know when it arrives and also if I have any problems.
Norman
Sorry for slightly hijacking this thread, back to business so to speak......
Lew,Lewguitar said:
Thanks for the compliment - yes it is one of my favourite Hamer guitars (I have got 4 of them). Still not received the new pickguard as yet but probably waiting somewhere in customs or hopefully going to be delivered in the next few days. I am waiting anxiously for this to arrive so that I can try it out in my '82 JV (jap Vintage) strat. Let you know when it arrives and also if I have any problems.
Norman
Sorry for slightly hijacking this thread, back to business so to speak......
Guitarist
Mesa-ologist
Re: 100 watt amps. Do you really need that much power?
Yep, good call on that one, my friend. I totally agree with you, at a dumber stage of my life, I thought that more is better. Well, in tube amps, I couldn't have been more wrong! So within the first 2 weeks of my purchase of a 150W Triple Rectifier I downgraded to a 50W Single. Wala, like magic, my tone is not only thick and creamy but also very accessible! Hails to big thumps in small packages!
Yep, good call on that one, my friend. I totally agree with you, at a dumber stage of my life, I thought that more is better. Well, in tube amps, I couldn't have been more wrong! So within the first 2 weeks of my purchase of a 150W Triple Rectifier I downgraded to a 50W Single. Wala, like magic, my tone is not only thick and creamy but also very accessible! Hails to big thumps in small packages!
Jeffrec
New member
Re: 100 watt amps. Do you really need that much power?
With a mod for pushing the preamp, the 100w amp is nice. Otherwise, it's not so hot unless you're playing in a stadium.
50w is all you really need, but as Jeremy said if you have 100w's it;s nice to know you have the extra firepower.
With a mod for pushing the preamp, the 100w amp is nice. Otherwise, it's not so hot unless you're playing in a stadium.
50w is all you really need, but as Jeremy said if you have 100w's it;s nice to know you have the extra firepower.
Vasshu the humanoid typhoon
Unseen
Re: 100 watt amps. Do you really need that much power?
I also use a +200 watts Hiwatt top....nothing beats those powertrannies...the sound is just awesome, great studioamp or bassamp
I also use a +200 watts Hiwatt top....nothing beats those powertrannies...the sound is just awesome, great studioamp or bassamp
Brow
Active member
Re: 100 watt amps. Do you really need that much power?
I don't really think it's essential to have a 100w amp, but like Robert and many others have said, it is good to know you have the power to give you an extra push when you need it.
I bought my 100w JCM800 head when I didn't understand the difference between SS and Valve watts. My amp at the time was a Marshall 8040 40w Valvestate amp, and it just wouldn't give me the sound I wanted (I'm blaming that on me being a newbie back then) and was going to buy a 50w JCM900 SL-X.
It was actually my Dad's fault that I got the 100w JCM800 instead as he said 'I'm not spending all that money (£300) on an amp thats only 10w louder than the 1 you have. If you're having a new amp its going to be 100w'
No way did I know the difference between a 40w Valvestate amp and a 100w JCM800 and a 2x12 cab when I bought it! The 1st time I cranked it, I almost took the roof off my house!
Since then I've always had a smaller wattage valve amp aswell. It used to be a Laney LC30 30w amp, and now I use a Marshall JTM60 combo with my Orange 4x12 and it gets awesome tone for what I play
Sorry for the rant........
Craig
I don't really think it's essential to have a 100w amp, but like Robert and many others have said, it is good to know you have the power to give you an extra push when you need it.
I bought my 100w JCM800 head when I didn't understand the difference between SS and Valve watts. My amp at the time was a Marshall 8040 40w Valvestate amp, and it just wouldn't give me the sound I wanted (I'm blaming that on me being a newbie back then
) and was going to buy a 50w JCM900 SL-X. It was actually my Dad's fault that I got the 100w JCM800 instead as he said 'I'm not spending all that money (£300) on an amp thats only 10w louder than the 1 you have. If you're having a new amp its going to be 100w'
No way did I know the difference between a 40w Valvestate amp and a 100w JCM800 and a 2x12 cab when I bought it! The 1st time I cranked it, I almost took the roof off my house!
Since then I've always had a smaller wattage valve amp aswell. It used to be a Laney LC30 30w amp, and now I use a Marshall JTM60 combo with my Orange 4x12 and it gets awesome tone for what I play
Sorry for the rant........
Craig
RingoRigby
New member
Re: 100 watt amps. Do you really need that much power?
Hmm, Blues Junior, you say? I was looking at the Hot Rod DeVille 4x10, but it may actually be in my best interests to go with Blues Jr.'s...lower wattage plus portability...how's the headroom in the cleans, Jeremy?
Hmm, Blues Junior, you say? I was looking at the Hot Rod DeVille 4x10, but it may actually be in my best interests to go with Blues Jr.'s...lower wattage plus portability...how's the headroom in the cleans, Jeremy?
CsaRvoX
New member
Re: 100 watt amps. Do you really need that much power?
last month I've sold my Marshall VS-100 cause I couln't crank it up in my room it blows the neighbourhood...and at lower volumes I could not get the real tone...anyway I was thinking about getting a DSL401 but I was lucky to get a 79' Fender Twin Reverb...it was an ironic situation cause I've sold VS-100 cause 100W was too loud but now I have an 135W amp ))...but it has a master volume so keeping the preamp volume low and cranking the master I'll get the full power valve sound at low volume levels and I don't think I would ever get a half valve or transistor amp...believe me nothing ever beats the full tube sound...
last month I've sold my Marshall VS-100 cause I couln't crank it up in my room it blows the neighbourhood
...and at lower volumes I could not get the real tone...anyway I was thinking about getting a DSL401 but I was lucky to get a 79' Fender Twin Reverb...it was an ironic situation cause I've sold VS-100 cause 100W was too loud but now I have an 135W amp ))...but it has a master volume so keeping the preamp volume low and cranking the master I'll get the full power valve sound at low volume levels and I don't think I would ever get a half valve or transistor amp...believe me nothing ever beats the full tube sound...
Nightburst
New member
Re: 100 watt amps. Do you really need that much power?
Oh come on, everybody likes the idea of a 100W amp! It's the magic number that speaks to the imagination. Just like cars, do you really need a huge engine? No, a small
Peugeot will get you from A to B but without the fun a Huge engine provides. Headroom is good to have too. The Peavey bandid (rated at 80W)in my bands rehearsal room doesn't have the headroom my Randall 100W provides me. I rather have the flagship instead of the small rubber boat...
Oh come on, everybody likes the idea of a 100W amp! It's the magic number that speaks to the imagination. Just like cars, do you really need a huge engine? No, a small
Peugeot will get you from A to B but without the fun a Huge engine provides. Headroom is good to have too. The Peavey bandid (rated at 80W)in my bands rehearsal room doesn't have the headroom my Randall 100W provides me. I rather have the flagship instead of the small rubber boat...
R
RACER X
Guest
Re: 100 watt amps. Do you really need that much power?
120wtt 1/2 stack here, better to have it than not.
120wtt 1/2 stack here, better to have it than not.
Bludave
New member
Re: 100 watt amps. Do you really need that much power?
The difference between a 50W and 100w is only 10 to 15 Db in volume. A 100 watt amp is NOT that much louder than a 50 watt. The primary difference is the amount of headroom you will have. With a higher wattage amp, it will remain "cleaner" at a higher volume, hence more headroom. At least thats what I have experienced.
The difference between a 50W and 100w is only 10 to 15 Db in volume. A 100 watt amp is NOT that much louder than a 50 watt. The primary difference is the amount of headroom you will have. With a higher wattage amp, it will remain "cleaner" at a higher volume, hence more headroom. At least thats what I have experienced.
Vasshu the humanoid typhoon
Unseen
Re: 100 watt amps. Do you really need that much power?
It is even less db, 5-6 at most.
Headroom is the keyword
It is even less db, 5-6 at most.
Headroom is the keyword
Luke Duke
PRSlustologist
Re: 100 watt amps. Do you really need that much power?
I am currently using a Dr. Z Maz Jr 18 watt amp with 2x10's...and BOY is it loud. After getting this amp I don't think I'll go back to a 100 watter unless I'm doing some headlining for some major arenas :wink: That being said though I do think you need more watts if you are unmic'ed, one of multiple guitarists, or most importantly playing outside. If I'm playing with a drummer outside unmic'ed my amp sounds ALOT smaller. I've still got a 100 watt twin and it will give me some major volume and I know a half stack will or the twin hooked up to a 4x12 too THAT'S NICE! But for me 100 watts is still overkill.
Luke
I am currently using a Dr. Z Maz Jr 18 watt amp with 2x10's...and BOY is it loud. After getting this amp I don't think I'll go back to a 100 watter unless I'm doing some headlining for some major arenas :wink: That being said though I do think you need more watts if you are unmic'ed, one of multiple guitarists, or most importantly playing outside. If I'm playing with a drummer outside unmic'ed my amp sounds ALOT smaller. I've still got a 100 watt twin and it will give me some major volume and I know a half stack will or the twin hooked up to a 4x12 too THAT'S NICE! But for me 100 watts is still overkill.
Luke
grendeltone
New member
Re: 100 watt amps. Do you really need that much power?
First thing that I have to say is that I have had a lot of amps and I use different amps for different situations.
My current main live amp is a two channel Triple Rectifier w/ the Mesa Boogie 4x12 Halfback cabinet. My band plays live frequently and it works for my needs at the venues we play... which I will go into detail.
I love the amp for the fact that I have enough headroom that my clean tone is CRYSTAL clear, actually more clear than when I used to use a Fender Twin & Roland JC-120 in stereo. The master level for the amp has helped me maintain the clarity and volume without having a power brake/power soak and I maintain a lower volume level than I could with my lower wattage amps.
I have the Yamaha T-100 Soldano designed head and also ancient Ampeg VT-22 heads w/ tube rectifiers... and both of those amps are UNBELIEVABLY loud and the amount of scorching distortion the T-100 has blows my Triple out of the water. The level of distortion does not compare, but the touch reactive nature of my Ampeg was what I loved, but I couldn't attenuate the volume and balance it out.
The Triple can get the tone I loved out of the Ampeg with almost the distortion of T-100. Granted... I would rather use my ancient Ampeg Reverb-o-Rocket combo which has left->bass... right->treble... and it sounds better than my old rack setup which included the Lee Jackson Tube Pre-Amp, ADA MP-1, Rocktron Pro-Q, & Mesa Boogie 395.... that was out of control for volume..
I have no problem with my Triple Rec, I have more control with that amp and it really offends me that people don't know how to set it up for a good tone and use it for what it is used for..
They just crank it up and switch it to solid state rect and squash all the responsiveness out of it..
THEN... they think that it is too much..
First thing that I have to say is that I have had a lot of amps and I use different amps for different situations.
My current main live amp is a two channel Triple Rectifier w/ the Mesa Boogie 4x12 Halfback cabinet. My band plays live frequently and it works for my needs at the venues we play... which I will go into detail.
I love the amp for the fact that I have enough headroom that my clean tone is CRYSTAL clear, actually more clear than when I used to use a Fender Twin & Roland JC-120 in stereo. The master level for the amp has helped me maintain the clarity and volume without having a power brake/power soak and I maintain a lower volume level than I could with my lower wattage amps.
I have the Yamaha T-100 Soldano designed head and also ancient Ampeg VT-22 heads w/ tube rectifiers... and both of those amps are UNBELIEVABLY loud and the amount of scorching distortion the T-100 has blows my Triple out of the water. The level of distortion does not compare, but the touch reactive nature of my Ampeg was what I loved, but I couldn't attenuate the volume and balance it out.
The Triple can get the tone I loved out of the Ampeg with almost the distortion of T-100. Granted... I would rather use my ancient Ampeg Reverb-o-Rocket combo which has left->bass... right->treble... and it sounds better than my old rack setup which included the Lee Jackson Tube Pre-Amp, ADA MP-1, Rocktron Pro-Q, & Mesa Boogie 395.... that was out of control for volume..
I have no problem with my Triple Rec, I have more control with that amp and it really offends me that people don't know how to set it up for a good tone and use it for what it is used for..
They just crank it up and switch it to solid state rect and squash all the responsiveness out of it..
THEN... they think that it is too much..
Re: 100 watt amps. Do you really need that much power?
i use my 5150 half stack once in a blue moon... more often i use the same 5150 head yet use a high powered Marshall 1x12 cab to tame the volume pressure a little....
I also have a 50 watt jcm 800 head, a Peavey C50 head, a few Fenders, a Peavey C30 combo... I use them all.... but the 120 watt 5150 is my main beast... it just has the sound i like...
But for portability and small bars the C30 combo with some good distortion pedals is just all i need... so it's a war... i want the 5150 all the time but all i need is the C30
i use my 5150 half stack once in a blue moon... more often i use the same 5150 head yet use a high powered Marshall 1x12 cab to tame the volume pressure a little....
I also have a 50 watt jcm 800 head, a Peavey C50 head, a few Fenders, a Peavey C30 combo... I use them all.... but the 120 watt 5150 is my main beast... it just has the sound i like...
But for portability and small bars the C30 combo with some good distortion pedals is just all i need... so it's a war... i want the 5150 all the time but all i need is the C30
big_black
Opaqueologist
Re: 100 watt amps. Do you really need that much power?
My mid-90s Ampeg has that too. It's a 120w 1x12 combo (it that insane or what??) that is swtichable down to 60w.
My mid-90s Ampeg has that too. It's a 120w 1x12 combo (it that insane or what??) that is swtichable down to 60w.
guitfiddle
firstlessonologist
Re: 100 watt amps. Do you really need that much power?
Not needed, but desired by many. I have a Musicman HD150, and that's more than enough, but it has a half power switch to go to 75 watts, and the preamp drivers make it sound good with the Master on 3 and volumes on 6 and 8 respective to the two channells being jumpered. It's nice to know you can get a bit more to cover the stage without loading the monitor mix up with guitar. In a big enough room you can drive four cabs with this thing, and not even be loud in the FOH mix. I saw Jeff Beck last Feb. and he used two Fenders into two cabs for cleans, and two Marshalls into four cabs for dirty, and it sounded great.
Zeppelin always looked like they set up really tight on stage, even on the huge ones, so Jimmy was never far away from the cab, and a 150 watt amp is not really a LOT louder than the 50 watt amp. You need lots more power than that to double the sound, and an attenuater makes it possible to get power tube disto at sane levels.
I have an Ampeg Jet 15 watt class a, and it gets the job done nicely, but on big stages if you don't have a 57 to go into the PA, it gets lost FAST.
Not needed, but desired by many. I have a Musicman HD150, and that's more than enough, but it has a half power switch to go to 75 watts, and the preamp drivers make it sound good with the Master on 3 and volumes on 6 and 8 respective to the two channells being jumpered. It's nice to know you can get a bit more to cover the stage without loading the monitor mix up with guitar. In a big enough room you can drive four cabs with this thing, and not even be loud in the FOH mix. I saw Jeff Beck last Feb. and he used two Fenders into two cabs for cleans, and two Marshalls into four cabs for dirty, and it sounded great.
Zeppelin always looked like they set up really tight on stage, even on the huge ones, so Jimmy was never far away from the cab, and a 150 watt amp is not really a LOT louder than the 50 watt amp. You need lots more power than that to double the sound, and an attenuater makes it possible to get power tube disto at sane levels.
I have an Ampeg Jet 15 watt class a, and it gets the job done nicely, but on big stages if you don't have a 57 to go into the PA, it gets lost FAST.
The Golden Boy
Fleecy Sweaterologist
Re: 100 watt amps. Do you really need that much power?
If I have less than 300w it's nearly impossible to function!!!
Oh, you're talking about guitar amps...
If I have less than 300w it's nearly impossible to function!!!
Oh, you're talking about guitar amps...
Red_Label
New member
Re: 100 watt amps. Do you really need that much power?
I've been gigging 50 watt and 100 watt tube heads/combos for years and have found that there is very little difference between the two wattages in terms of volume. The 100 watters give you higher clean headroom. And allow you to run 2 4X12's efficiently. So the sound is more massive in that respect. But it's not much LOUDER than a good 50 watt tube head. I'd say that for most players, 50 watts will do fine in a live setting.
But it's rock&roll and more is always better!
I've been gigging 50 watt and 100 watt tube heads/combos for years and have found that there is very little difference between the two wattages in terms of volume. The 100 watters give you higher clean headroom. And allow you to run 2 4X12's efficiently. So the sound is more massive in that respect. But it's not much LOUDER than a good 50 watt tube head. I'd say that for most players, 50 watts will do fine in a live setting.
But it's rock&roll and more is always better!
