$1100 for an Epi "Lazarus" LP really ?

[JMP/HBE]

I think newer model Epis under $1000 are a steal. They look, sound and play great. And if you're into the PAF sound, then even their new pups are very good.

How did we go from $300 Chinese Squires & Epi's to $1000+ for the basic same guitar ?
And spare me on the "figured wood" arguments they're all veneers.

 

[JMP/HBE]

How are we getting that the $300 and $1,000 models are the same basic guitar?

Um how are they [not] ?
Epiphone China is Epiphone China.

 

[Masta' C]

I was hoping to hear about some of your hands-on experience.

He doesn't have any

The reality is that Epiphone has always been a decent brand, but suffers from a track record of cheaping out on hardware and electronics. That's less the case these days and their offerings are reasonably competitive with those from most other brands today.

An Indonesian-made ESP LTD with the same "veneer" is $900 now. A comparable Korean-made Schecter STARTS at $1K and goes up from there.

Sure, there are some great playing guitars to be found in the $300-$500 range, but the $800-$900 Epis aren't really overpriced, relatively speaking.

 

[Masta' C]

I honestly cant tell you what a $900 model is like now

There's definitely a point of diminishing returns. The reality is that manufacturing is pretty dang good throughout the range. You're really just paying for premium features and/or signature models at that point, but the actual "quality" of a $500-$600 Epi vs an $800-$900 Epi isn't significantly different

 

[JMP/HBE]

I was hoping to hear about some of your hands-on experience. I havent played the latest $1k-ish models.

And while we are at it, lets talk about a $300 Chinese Squier and a $1,000 MIM Fender being the same thing.

I don't have to try Heroin to know i don't want anything to do with it follow ?

 

[ErikH]

The ones I have played are in the $600-$700 range. Mostly the Les Paul Standards. Those are a great value. And the QC miles ahead of where it used to be when they first opened the China facility. The ProBucker pickups are completely different, and better, that what they used to put in them. They are overall a simply better guitar, even though they are still made in China in the Epiphone facility. Products produced in the same place are allowed to improve. My Squier Classic Vibe was in the $500 with tax. Compared to Squiers of the past I had played (and sold as I worked in a shop for a few years), these are miles ahead in quality.

 

[JMP/HBE]

He doesn't have any

The reality is that Epiphone has always been a decent brand, but suffers from a track record of cheaping out on hardware and electronics. That's less the case these days and their offerings are reasonably competitive with those from most other brands today.

An Indonesian-made ESP LTD with the same "veneer" is $900 now. A comparable Korean-made Schecter STARTS at $1K and goes up from there.

Sure, there are some great playing guitars to be found in the $300-$500 range, but the $800-$900 Epis aren't really overpriced, relatively speaking.

Nice "blanket statement" you try to lump me inoto fitting your narriative. I DO know wtf im talking about and again i ask how'd we go from paying $300 to $1200 for Chinese Epi's just cuz Joe B rubbed his nards on it ?
I had an Epi "Custom Shop" 335 was nice but only paid $350. Come to find out Epiphone CS is just a marketing term their isn't really an Epi CS.
And the "inspired by Gibson" 61 SG/LP i had for $450 [had to by a case $100] was a really well done guitar including the Epi Pro Buckers but again no $1200 guitar.
Whats next $3200 "Custom Historic VOS Epiphone's" ?
Laugh at me all you want but Epi China are already in the $1000 to $15000 range.

 

[Masta' C]

You're clearly disconnected from these newer products and you don't really see the value in them. That's totally fine...so don't buy them. Vote with your wallet. Don't give into inflation. Play what you have and be happy.

As for your original post, the dude was simply asking for an amount in line with what the market appears to tolerate for that particular product at this moment in time. Can't blame the guy for that. I'm sure you want to receive an appropriate value for what you're selling/trading, even if some schmuck on the internet can't get over the fact that "things didn't cost that much in them olden days"

 

[JMP/HBE]

The dude in my OP was trying to extort $200 from the retail price.
Its all Marketing Bro.
They do it because they can.

 

[Masta' C]

Most of the Epis I have played over the years have been in the $400 to $600 range, going back about 20 years. The actual price of what constitutes a midrange Epi doesnt seem to have gone up much in that time, but I think $500 spent on a new Epi gets you a much better guitar now than it used to.

I think that's the thing to note in all this. When the first Epiphone LP Custom came out in 1988-89, it retailed for around $600. That price stayed pretty consistent for about 30 years, even though that kind of money generally bought less and less over time due to inflation.

During that broad period, the guitars themselves didn't really change in any significant way, but there was a clear boost in QC and the quality of things like pickups improved a lot starting about 10 years ago (around the time the "Probuckers" came into existence).

Today, we expect top notch quality, but still don't want to spend more than $600 for that same LP, so manufacturing gets shifted around to keep costs down...from Korea to China, for example. By the way, the move of Epiphone to China started back in 2004! So, anyone complaining about newer stuff being made there is clearly out of touch

 

[Masta' C]

The dude in my OP was trying to extort $200 from the retail price.
Its all Marketing Bro.
They do it because they can.

The dude in your OP was trying to extract current market value for his instrument based on what others are selling theirs for. Retail price doesn't matter, because it was a limited run and you can no longer buy it at retail. If you want that particular model, you have no choice but to pay over the original retail price...at least right now.

That's a fundamental economic concept called "supply and demand". Of course, you DON'T want that model, so you're not part of the "demand" piece of that equation.

Nonetheless, viewing it as if the dude is trying to screw you over is pretty narrow-sighted, IMO. If you jumped on something while it was available and found out the value had quickly risen after it was no longer available, you'd surely scoff at people trying to "low ball" you in the same way. It's all in how you frame it.

 

[JMP/HBE]

The dude in your OP was trying to extract current market value for his instrument based on what others are selling theirs for. Retail price doesn't matter, because it was a limited run and you can no longer buy it at retail. If you want that particular model, you have no choice but to pay over the original retail price...at least right now.

That's a fundamental economic concept called "supply and demand". Of course, you DON'T want that model, so you're not part of the "demand" piece of that equation.

Nonetheless, viewing it as if the dude is trying to screw you over is pretty narrow-sighted, IMO. If you jumped on something while it was available and found out the value had quickly risen after it was no longer available, you'd surely scoff at people trying to "low ball" you in the same way. It's all in how you frame it.

Wrong, a] thats not the "current CL market" in these parts & b] he made that price up in his head.
Precisely why its so absurd.
And c] retail price does matter or there would be no "Reverb".
"Supply & demand" doesn't give folks license to price gouge & rip people off and there are Federal & State laws to protect buyers.
His guitar hasn't sold and it won't i see that guy & others all the time with overpriced junk and he's a weirdo to boot.
There's about a dozen regular flippers that peddle crap guitars every week.
So again : At what point do we end up paying $2500+ for a Chinese Epiphone ?
Nobody seems to want to answer that.

 

[Masta' C]

Wrong, a] thats not the "current CL market" in these parts & b] he made that price up in his head.
Precisely why its so absurd.
And c] retail price does matter or there would be no "Reverb".
"Supply & demand" doesn't give folks license to price gouge & rip people off and there are Federal & State laws to protect buyers.
His guitar hasn't sold and it won't i see that guy & others all the time with overpriced junk and he's a weirdo to boot.
There's about a dozen regular flippers that peddle crap guitars every week.
So again : At what point do we end up paying $2500+ for a Chinese Epiphone ?
Nobody seems to want to answer that.

How much is a pair of glasses and some "how to use the internet" classes "in those parts"?

Tell me more about how Reverb is only retail and that dude made up the price "in his head"...here's a screenshot of current Reverb listings for that guitar:

If we're being honest, $1100 might be a good deal...you should jump on it and list it on retail-friendly Reverb for $1800 or more!!!

 

[jeremy]

i was unaware this was a jb thing. the jb epiphones ive played have been pretty damn good, gotta say. not sure if they are worth what people are asking but who knows

 

[JMP/HBE]

How much is a pair of glasses and some "how to use the internet" classes "in those parts"?

Tell me more about how Reverb is only retail and that dude made up the price "in his head"...here's a screenshot of current Reverb listings for that guitar:

If we're being honest, $1100 might be a good deal...you should jump on it and list it on retail-friendly Reverb for $1800 or more!!!

Well then looks like $2000 Chinese Epi's are here to stay at least til the bubble bursts.
Reminds me of 1991 when Grunge killed Rock [for good].

<iframe src="https://giphy.com/embed/jWi8VNX4hhdeS4o6i5" width="480" height="270" frameBorder="0" class="giphy-embed" allowFullScreen></iframe><p><a href="https://giphy.com/gifs/Spiegelworld-absinthe-vegas-absinthevegas-jWi8VNX4hhdeS4o6i5">via GIPHY</a></p>

 

[GuitarDoc]

Nice "blanket statement" you try to lump me inoto fitting your narriative. I DO know wtf im talking about and again i ask how'd we go from paying $300 to $1200 for Chinese Epi's just cuz Joe B rubbed his nards on it ?
I had an Epi "Custom Shop" 335 was nice but only paid $350. Come to find out Epiphone CS is just a marketing term their isn't really an Epi CS.
And the "inspired by Gibson" 61 SG/LP i had for $450 [had to by a case $100] was a really well done guitar including the Epi Pro Buckers but again no $1200 guitar.
Whats next $3200 "Custom Historic VOS Epiphone's" ?
Laugh at me all you want but Epi China are already in the $1000 to $15000 range.

Oh man, the 335 is truly gorgeous!!!!

 

[GuitarDoc]

He doesn't have any

The reality is that Epiphone has always been a decent brand, but suffers from a track record of cheaping out on hardware and electronics. That's less the case these days and their offerings are reasonably competitive with those from most other brands today.

An Indonesian-made ESP LTD with the same "veneer" is $900 now. A comparable Korean-made Schecter STARTS at $1K and goes up from there.

Sure, there are some great playing guitars to be found in the $300-$500 range, but the $800-$900 Epis aren't really overpriced, relatively speaking.

Totally agree.

 

[JMP/HBE]

Why would anyone pay $1100 to $1800 for an Epi when you can buy a Gibson USA for $800 to $1200 ?
Does Gibson/Epiphone really think people are that stupid ?
IDK, maybe they are ?
Do folks really buy stuff because it has the Joe B. spermazoa on it ?

 

[LLL]

I think that's the thing to note in all this. When the first Epiphone LP Custom came out in 1988-89, it retailed for around $600. That price stayed pretty consistent for about 30 years, even though that kind of money generally bought less and less over time due to inflation.

During that broad period, the guitars themselves didn't really change in any significant way,

That's the Epiphone I know and remember. Remember late 80's seeing a Les Paul on the wall in the guitar store but with a funny headstock. Found out that Epiphone was Gibson's budget brand.


Anderton's says:

"Fierce competitors in the archtop guitar market throughout the '30s and '40s, Epiphone was later acquired by Gibson in 1957. Essentially becoming Gibson's œbudget brand"

https://blog.andertons.co.uk/labs/gi...iphone-guitars

 

[LLL]

Ah, excuse me, but who's this "Joe Bananamasser" guy and what's he doing with Epiphany?

:13: