12-string all courses octaves - Possible? Gauges?

[Plessure]

I have recently bought a 12 string which i find excellent for improvising vocal melodies. However, the top unison strings limit me in this style of playing. I would like all the courses to be octaves.

On my set of strings the G octave string is 0.008 inches. I understand this is the thinnest string commonly available. Seeing as the E string is a normal 0.010 despite being only 3 semitones lower in frequency, i suppose i would need to go down to like 0.004 in order to attain some kind of symmetry. Are such thin strings even practically viable? Conversely, could 0.008 be tuned 9 semitones higher than usual and not risk snapping at any time?

Any input will be appreciated.

 

[dystrust]

Re: 12-string all courses octaves - Possible? Gauges?

I doubt it's possible. In the early 90s a few players (like George Lynch) experimented with tuning a 7 string guitar E-A instead of B-E. On Fender scale the high A string needs to be reinforced, or it's seriously prone to breakage. These reinforced strings are seriously expensive; they typically cost as much or more than the entire rest of the set of strings. Given that difficulty, I don't see you being able to tune a string an octave above the high E.

 

[Plessure]

Re: 12-string all courses octaves - Possible? Gauges?

I doubt it's possible. In the early 90s a few players (like George Lynch) experimented with tuning a 7 string guitar E-A instead of B-E. On Fender scale the high A string needs to be reinforced, or it's seriously prone to breakage. These reinforced strings are seriously expensive; they typically cost as much or more than the entire rest of the set of strings. Given that difficulty, I don't see you being able to tune a string an octave above the high E.

Thank you for this informative reply.

I suppose a reduction in scale length is necessary for this to work. Or a lower tuning, of course.

Maybe it's simply too much note spread for one scale length, or even any playable multiscale. On the other hand, things like 8 string guitars are very close to a 3 octave spread. Maybe even at or above in certain cases.

My tentative conclusion is that down-tuning the thing 7 semitones down to A, with high octave A being 0.008, should work.

 

[dystrust]

Re: 12-string all courses octaves - Possible? Gauges?

Thank you for this informative reply.

I suppose a reduction in scale length is necessary for this to work. Or a lower tuning, of course.

Maybe it's simply too much note spread for one scale length, or even any playable multiscale.

A .007 high A string works fine on 23.5" scale, so fanned frets may be viable. I couldn't say what other trade offs would be though.

 

[JB_From_Hell]

Re: 12-string all courses octaves - Possible? Gauges?

Have you thought about a mandolin or mandola? You'd sacrifice the low end, but get plenty of room to play with the high end. Mandolins are typically strung with identical string courses, but you could swap out one of each for a thicker string. I use .0115 for my E strings, so you could go down to maybe a .009 and go above E.

 

[Plessure]

Re: 12-string all courses octaves - Possible? Gauges?

A .007 high A string works fine on 23.5" scale, so fanned frets may be viable. I couldn't say what other trade offs would be though.

Alright. Again, thank you!

It seems like the easiest solution would be an Electro Harmonix Pog or something similar.

Thanks for your recommendation. However, i must decline since, for this application, i require the tactile feedback and flexibility of having separate strings for the octave.

Have you thought about a mandolin or mandola? You'd sacrifice the low end, but get plenty of room to play with the high end. Mandolins are typically strung with identical string courses, but you could swap out one of each for a thicker string. I use .0115 for my E strings, so you could go down to maybe a .009 and go above E.

Actually this thought hasn't materialized in my mind. I mainly use the higher courses anyway when i'm playing in this style. It's a great suggestion!

Would there be any problems using such thick strings with such a small scale length?

Come to think of it, i could just start playing higher on the fretboard on the 4 lower courses of my 12-string. However, not being able to fully embrace the instrument is dissatisfying. I'm quite sold on this mandolin idea now. Cranking out them r'n'b vocal lines on a mandolin. Life takes funny turns.

 

[Boogie Bill]

Re: 12-string all courses octaves - Possible? Gauges?

"Maybe"....if you tried heavier strings in B or C tuning. But otherwise...dumb idea.

Bill