12AY7 vs 12AX7

SongsForTheDeaf

SongsForTheDeaf

New member
I was suggested to get a 12AY7 tube in v1 on my Ampeg Reverb Rocket Reissue to give it a deeper warmer sound. I have EHX 12ax7s in there now and find it to be a little harsh/fizzy with pedals right now unless on the gain channel with the master cranked and the Gain to adjust overall volume.

Has anyone done this to their amps and had good results ? Does it make a big difference ?

Headroom is not an issue
 
Re: 12AY7 vs 12AX7

You'll get about 45% of the gain of a 12ax7 which is a pretty huge drop in volume. I'm not sure how the character of the amp will sound afterwards.
 
Re: 12AY7 vs 12AX7

GuitarStv said:
You'll get about 45% of the gain of a 12ax7 which is a pretty huge drop in volume. I'm not sure how the character of the amp will sound afterwards.
Click to expand...

Jeez so it will make the amp quieter overall ? I don't know if I'd like that. I play in 2 pretty loud bands.
 
Re: 12AY7 vs 12AX7

I mistyped. It'll reduce the gain in your preamp stage. This is more likely to reduce the distortion you have on tap than reduce your overall volume . . . although it may have an effect on volume as well.
 
Re: 12AY7 vs 12AX7

GuitarStv said:
It'll reduce the gain in your preamp stage. This is more likely to reduce the distortion you have on tap than reduce your overall volume . . .
Click to expand...

AH ok that is fine, I don't use the amps gain I use pedals.

my bandmate just grabbed me one of these 12ay7s from the store so I will get to try it tomorrow in the Ampeg...I'm hoping I get a rounder sound and more range on the EQ knobs without it getting harsh.
 
Re: 12AY7 vs 12AX7

12AY7, 12AT7, and even 12DW7 are usually decent lower-gain replacements for 12AX7's. The 12DW7's are super low gain (about 80% less than a 12AX7.) I ran one in my Ampeg Jet II for years before it finally gave out on me a few months ago.

However, Diamond Blue Series Reverberockets are not high-gain amps. I think the problem is more likely the cheap-ass tubes that you have in there. I've had several EHX tubes die on me very quickly after putting them in, usually from mechanical failure. They also don't sound that great in most amps. (They are just re-labeled Sovtek 12AX7WAs if I remember correctly.) I'd try better quality 12AX7's to start.
 
Re: 12AY7 vs 12AX7

ItsaBass said:
12AY7, 12AT7, and even 12DW7 are usually decent lower-gain replacements for 12AX7's. The 12DW7's are super low gain (about 80% less than a 12AX7.) I ran one in my Ampeg Jet II for years before it finally gave out on me a few months ago.

However, Diamond Blue Series Reverberockets are not high-gain amps. I think the problem is more likely the cheap-ass tubes that you have in there. I've had several EHX tubes die on me very quickly after putting them in, usually from mechanical failure. They also don't sound that great in most amps. (They are just re-labeled Sovtek 12AX7WAs if I remember correctly.) I'd try better quality 12AX7's to start.
Click to expand...

Hmm thanks for the insight. I have heard the EHX tubes are not very good and very harsh in high gain amps so it makes sense. I should replace all 3 of the EHX preamp tubes in this amp too.

I have some spare 12ax7s laying around I could put in there and use the 12ay7 in V1. I like a VERY round warm clean tone and use my pedals set a bit brighter for more articulate distortion and fuzz sounds.
 
Re: 12AY7 vs 12AX7

Speakers are also an issue in those amps. The stock speakers are just OEM Eminence-made ones that usually aren't the greatest.
 
Re: 12AY7 vs 12AX7

ItsaBass said:
Speakers are also an issue in those amps. The stock speakers are just OEM Eminence-made ones that usually aren't the greatest.
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Yeah I was wondering who made the stock Ampeg labelled 12" speakers.

I will probably end up switching those out when I have spare money...These are by no means bad speakers IMO I think when the amp is tweaked right they sound decent but I would not mind upgrading. Anyone know what the ohm rating of the speakers are ?
 
Re: 12AY7 vs 12AX7

ItsaBass said:
12AY7, 12AT7, and even 12DW7 are usually decent lower-gain replacements for 12AX7's. The 12DW7's are super low gain (about 80% less than a 12AX7.) I think the problem is more likely the cheap-ass tubes that you have in there. I've had several EHX tubes die on me very quickly after putting them in, usually from mechanical failure. They also don't sound that great in most amps. (They are just re-labeled Sovtek 12AX7WAs if I remember correctly.) I'd try better quality 12AX7's to start.
Click to expand...

The EHX 12ax7 is definitely NOT a relabeled Sovtek 12ax7wa (look at the plate structure). It used to be a relabeled 12ax7LPS (which is arguably the best tube for the PI spot), but it's a different tube these days. Higher gain than the 12ax7wa and 12ax7wb and has a bit more push in the higher mids than a 12ax7LPS. It's structure also makes it less prone to microphonics apparantly. They're actually a great and very reliable tube in about every spot from v1 to PI and lasted me a long time.
There's a lot of people bashing anything New Sensor produces, but they're still the most reliable and consistent product out there (not counting NOS).

But, if you want to smooth the top-end out you might wanna try JJ (warmer) or Shuguang (brighter). If you want to drop the gain in V1, try a 5751.
 
Re: 12AY7 vs 12AX7

thanks El Supremo.

I just put a JJ 12ax7 in V2 and a Groove Tubes 12ax7 in the PI slot and have the Groove tubes 12ay7 in V1 currently. I will give this setup a blast tomorrow and post back with my results. I was having some high frequency hum/hiss on all volume levels and gain levels on this amp too which was not too noticeable but it was there so I'm hoping the preamp tube change fixes that too. Not sure how old the EHX preamp tubes that were in there were.
 
Re: 12AY7 vs 12AX7

Your welcome. Groove Tubes are actually all relabeled tubes tested and selected by GT. Just so you'd know you just might have stuck another EHX in there.
The only factories still producing tubes are New Sensor, Shuguang, JJ and Svetlana. Ruby Tubes, TAD, GT, etc. are all relabeled versions of these.
 
Re: 12AY7 vs 12AX7

El Supremo said:
Your welcome. Groove Tubes are actually all relabeled tubes tested and selected by GT. Just so you'd know you just might have stuck another EHX in there.
The only factories still producing tubes are New Sensor, Shuguang, JJ and Svetlana. Ruby Tubes, TAD, GT, etc. are all relabeled versions of these.
Click to expand...

Just to clarify, SOME GT and TAD tubes are proprietary designs made to spec for them, the rest of their catalog is relabeled current manufactured tubes. They usually state in their catalogs which tubes are proprietary designs.

Al
 
Re: 12AY7 vs 12AX7

Zombiwoof said:
Just to clarify, SOME GT and TAD tubes are proprietary designs made to spec for them, the rest of their catalog is relabeled current manufactured tubes. They usually state in their catalogs which tubes are proprietary designs.

Al
Click to expand...

Correct, these are mostly produced in China by Shuguang (TAD has 2 6L6 designs one of which I had in my Boogie). These tubes have also been available without relabeling at a fraction of the costs (don't think this was really intended to happen, but whatever).
 
Re: 12AY7 vs 12AX7

Ok I just tried the 12ay7 in v1 just now.. Sounded a lot fuller and I swear it has more harmonics now with my dirt pedals. Overall I like the sound but I would not say there is a HUGE difference in sound from a 12ax7
 
Re: 12AY7 vs 12AX7

treyhaislip said:
Very interesting...so fuller and more harmonics?...cool!
Click to expand...

Yeah I also noticed as I turned up my amp the sound got muddier. Something I can EQ out with the bass rolled down on the amp and the mids up.

I guess I really like 12ay7s ! I love the sound of this Ampeg now. Well more than I did, this amp has grown on me the past few days and I am going to record with it next week. Glad I did not sell it after I first tried it!
 
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