16ohm 212 with Seymour Duncan Powerstage 200

[Abyss]

So I’m picking up a SD Powerstage 200 for my Fractal FM3. I’m going to run that through a 212 Hughes and Kettner 16 ohm cab. I’ve read that the cabinet will work fine with the power stage, but it may not have enough volume. Would I need to search for a 8 ohm 212? I’m just running it at band practice and I wanted something more traditional feeling than a FRFR. I’m sure it’ll be loud enough to keep over a drummer, but could this be loud enough to do a small show? Thanks

 

[ehdwuld]

I have run 8ohm and 16ohm speakers
at full volume there little perceived volume differences

 

[Artie]

^^^^ Not only that, but I would think 200 watts would cover a small stadium. I've been to some small venues where the guitarist was super loud with a 40 watt amp.

 

[eclecticsynergy]

200W of solid state power isn't nearly as loud as a cooking 40W tube amp.
But I bet the Powerstage into 16Ω would be plenty loud enough for small venues.

 

[Artie]

200W of solid state power isn't nearly as loud as a cooking 40W tube amp.

Yeah. I got that right after I posted it. But it was late. :flush:

 

[ehdwuld]

Oh wait a min

The SD pwoerstage is 200 watts?

Check the wattage of the cabinet please

I wouldn't push two 100 watt speakers to their threshold

 

[Aceman]

I have heard of this thing called a PA, whereby they put a microphone in front of a speaker, or sometimes, with the fancy-fancy electronic boards, they even have a thing called a direct out. You want one even for a small show.

You'll be fine.

 

[Demanic]

Put a 200W Powerstage into a 280W 4x12 and see what happens.

Oh and does the Powerstage have a direct out?

 

[NegativeEase]

Put a 200W Powerstage into a 280W 4x12 and see what happens.

Oh and does the Powerstage have a direct out?

It doesn't - but most players would DI from their pedals or a quality seperate DI I'd imagine these days. AMP DIs are notoriously noisy and lack true isolation -not a great choice for gigging

 

[jeremy]

powerstage is 200w at 4ohms, so like 50w at 16ohms which should be fine. if you are playing a gig where that isnt loud enough, then there should be a big pa that can do the heavy lifting. i play festivals with a 20w amp without issue. there is a balanced di out on this as well with switchable cabsim

 

[NegativeEase]

powerstage is 200w at 4ohms, so like 50w at 16ohms which should be fine. if you are playing a gig where that isnt loud enough, then there should be a big pa that can do the heavy lifting. i play festivals with a 20w amp without issue. there is a balanced di out on this as well with switchable cabsim

This is my thinking as well -Should be fine

You just dont need large amps and high volume like bands would have used decades ago.

 

[Seashore]

I gotta say, there are still plenty of shows where the PA is only for vocals, your amps are for house sound, and you wouldn't want to run direct if you could. Maybe 50W at 16 ohms into a 2x12 would be enough to be heard, maybe not. Depends on the room and the drummer, and where you have to put the cab so the drummer can hear it too. Two matching 2x12s seems like it would be a good flexible solution, you only bring the second one if you need it.

 

[NegativeEase]

I gotta say, there are still plenty of shows where the PA is only for vocals, your amps are for house sound, and you wouldn't want to run direct if you could. Maybe 50W at 16 ohms into a 2x12 would be enough to be heard, maybe not. Depends on the room and the drummer, and where you have to put the cab so the drummer can hear it too. Two matching 2x12s seems like it would be a good flexible solution, you only bring the second one if you need it.

I guess house shows is where I have still seen that -but I havent experienced Club PAs not being for all instruments in decades -even at the smallest clubs these days seem to have a full featured PA with subs -as they are totally affordable -hell, I played a record store this summer that even had a complete set up -as it's in the clubs interest to discourage the band dictating the volume in the club by bringing everything under the sun like the old days and ruining the audience ability to have a good time.

 

[Seashore]

I guess house shows is where I have still seen that -but I havent experienced Club PAs not being for all instruments in decades -even at the smallest clubs these days seem to have a full featured PA with subs -as they are totally affordable -hell, I played a record store this summer that even had a complete set up -as it's in the clubs interest to discourage the band dictating the volume in the club by bringing everything under the sun like the old days and ruining the audience ability to have a good time.

Bars, cafes, pop up spaces, small outdoor gigs... I dunno man, I haven't played a real show since early 2020 but the vast majority of everything I played before that was vocals-only. Even that show was at a club with a full PA (Geno's in Portland) but we relied on our amps for monitoring and I wound up needing to goose it a bit. I played a few places in the city where there was some version of a "full" PA, but those were essentially reinforcement - plenty of the house sound still came from the live rig and the drums, and there were no monitors to speak of. Lucky if the drummer got a wedge, otherwise a 4x12 would have to go behind him. I also played mostly small venues that catered to metal, or in Lowell it was more punk and indie rock, and everyone knew those shows would get loud - but that was just a matter of finding the right level to balance with the drummer, not blowing people away with extra speakers. The drummer sets the volume. Earplugs forever. For that matter when we were using those old Line6 heads all the time we would often put together full stacks to get more clarity without going full tilt - two 100W solid state amplifiers in a case with a modeler, not too far off from this Powerstage rig. You still have a volume knob.

Point being, there are a lot of situations that one 50W solid state amp into a 2x12 might not be able to handle, and having another matching cab would make that rig a lot more versatile.

 

[El Dunco]

I seriously doubt the 200 isn’t loud enough. Even my 150 watt PB with a modeler direct in to the power amp already starts to get deafening with the volume on 4 out of 100. I still like to have a real guitar cabinet on stage. It ensures I’m never at the mercy of a poor monitor mix and there’s no better way to get intentional feedback/sustain than going right up to the cabinet and letting it rip.

A good sound engineer who knows what they’re doing can get a great sound combining direct out (the kind with the rudimentary lo-pass analog cab sim) and the mic’d cab. That’s what I’ve been doing lately. Direct out from my amp and fx router blended with an e609 draped over the cabinet. It’s designed with that purpose in mind by being flat and side-address.

It’s something like 70% mic, 30% DI which adds a clear fullness to the mids that keeps it defined and audible in the FOH mix. Haven’t run into any phase issues the phase invert button on the channel strip couldn’t fix.

Until they start making IRs designed from the ground up to be optimised for live sound, the overly “produced” tone really doesn’t work as well. They tend to sound a bit washy and get lost in the mix without some major EQ work at the desk and there just isn’t time for the AE to mess around with that stuff when it’s showtime. I imagine they’d be very mid focused with seriously reigned in low end.

 

[maug2122]

200W of solid state power isn't nearly as loud as a cooking 40W tube amp.
But I bet the Powerstage into 16Ω would be plenty loud enough for small venues.

I don't know about that one, I'm running my Digitech 2112 SGS (two 12ax7 tubes), with two VHT Valvulator 1's ( one 12ax7 tube each) in stereo into two Crate Power Block ( class D powered), at 8 ohms/ 150 watts each . The other , who has a 100 Marshall tube amp can't match my volume, so I have lower it .

 

[eclecticsynergy]

I don't know about that one, I'm running my Digitech 2112 SGS (two 12ax7 tubes), with two VHT Valvulator 1's ( one 12ax7 tube each) in stereo into two Crate Power Block ( class D powered), at 8 ohms/ 150 watts each . The other , who has a 100 Marshall tube amp can't match my volume, so I have lower it .

So that 100W tube amp isn't as loud as your 300 Watts of solid state? Not really that surprising, IMO.
The beauty of solid state is, you can turn down without altering your tone or even affecting the feel much.
Tube heads have a smaller sweet spot.

Either way, I'd wager you guys have more than enough volume for club venues & small theaters.

Of course, running in stereo also delivers higher SPLs than the same power in mono.
The same way two 50W half stacks give you much, much more volume than a 100W full stack.

I'm running 20 tube Watts per side in my rack these days, and it's still substantially louder than my vintage 40W tube amps.
Of course the Fenders have sixty-year-old speakers, as opposed to '90s Celestions...

PowerBlock was a great product, loud and reliable. I bet nearly all of them are still pumping out music.
Have long considered getting one as an emergency backup.
​

 

[maug2122]

So that 100W tube amp isn't as loud as your 300 Watts of solid state? Not really that surprising, IMO.
The beauty of solid state is, you can turn down without altering your tone or even affecting the feel much.
Tube heads have a smaller sweet spot.

Either way, I'd wager you guys have more than enough volume for club venues & small theaters.

Of course, running in stereo also delivers higher SPLs than the same power in mono.
The same way two 50W half stacks give you much, much more volume than a 100W full stack.

I'm running 20 tube Watts per side in my rack these days, and it's still substantially louder than my vintage 40W tube amps.
Of course the Fenders have sixty-year-old speakers, as opposed to '90s Celestions...

PowerBlock was a great product, loud and reliable. I bet nearly all of them are still pumping out music.
Have long considered getting one as an emergency backup.
​

The CPB, is pretty much a Class D attempt of sounding like a Hi Watt 100 watt from the early 1970's. Alone, without tubes, it's a little lack luster, if you are accustomed to tube dynamics

Many use it as a back up, but I pump in tube dynamics with a Digitech 2112 SGS (two 12ax7 tubes) and two VHT Valvulators 1's ( each has 12ax7 tube ) before going into two Crate Power Blocks at 150 watts in stereo .

I helped a friend build his rack, but he is using two powerful little Quilter " Block" style amps that similar to my set up . I sold him my Eleven Rack and man he's got many great tone variations .

Carvin's SX 300, Randall RG 80 and RG 100 are pretty good solid state amps .