1959 Les Paul and Grovers

[theWalrus]

Hi Folks,

I'm thinking of replacing the stock Kluson tuners in my 1959 Les Paul (2013 reissue) by locking tuners, for better tuning stability and maybe better sustain. The G tuner stock Kluson in mine makes a rattle noise whenever I pluck hard, whereas the others don't. One option is to get a spare one and just replace it.

Basically I've seen these two types of Grovers. Which one is better? Are all grovers locking tuners?





Thanks!

 

[phil_104]

Re: 1959 Les Paul and Grovers

http://guitar-machine-heads.com/hp528976/Original-G-Series-Keystone-DR-Locking.htm

Try these.

 

[theWalrus]

Re: 1959 Les Paul and Grovers

http://guitar-machine-heads.com/hp528976/Original-G-Series-Keystone-DR-Locking.htm

Try these.

That's a great idea... they look the same as my stock ones, but have the locking feature. Looks like Kluson makes them too:

http://www.musiciansfriend.com/acce...itar-tuning-machines--3-per-side-bolt-bushing

The Schaller has gear ratio 1:16 and the Kluson 1:15. I'm guessing 1:16 is better.

Do you know how to replace the tip by something worn down and vintage looking, like Uncle Lou's or Vintage Haven's tips? Do you just heat the part a bit?

 

[Agileguy_101]

Re: 1959 Les Paul and Grovers

FWIW, locking tuners don't actually give you increased tuning stability or (depending on what tuners you're getting) more sustain. You'd be better off putting that money into a better bridge which will definitely improve your tone.

This from a guy that's had multiple guitars with locking tuners.

 

[phil_104]

Re: 1959 Les Paul and Grovers

FWIW, locking tuners don't actually give you increased tuning stability or (depending on what tuners you're getting) more sustain. You'd be better off putting that money into a better bridge which will definitely improve your tone.

This from a guy that's had multiple guitars with locking tuners.

But they do make string changes a breeze.

 

[Agileguy_101]

Re: 1959 Les Paul and Grovers

I just finished setting up my Sperzel-equipped guitar and yes, it's much easier. If the guitar didn't already come with them or have multiple broken pegs, I no longer personally see the reason to go to locking tuners.

 

[uOpt]

Re: 1959 Les Paul and Grovers

I'd be very careful about putting heavier tuners on a guitar that sounds fine to you.

I wonder how the G tuner rattles. Might be a 30 second fix.

 

[phil_104]

Re: 1959 Les Paul and Grovers

Yeah, yeah... every locking tuner thread turns out to be a debate about their usefulness.

There are many reasons to change tuners ; feel, reliability, string changing speeds, etc. I have them on the guitars I bring on tours where I need to fly, just because I change strings often on 1 guitar, and I feel like the string doesn't have to settle in as long on them.

Regardless, I suggested the ones I posted up there because you don't need to drill. Should you ever want to sell the guitar, or return it to it's original condition, it would be very easy to do so.

 

[the guy who invented fire]

Re: 1959 Les Paul and Grovers

Lots of info here.

I'll say that locking tuners will not improve tuning stability on a hardtail guitar like a Les Paul.

Also, FWIW it will require reeming the headstock out for larger tuners and it will add weight and IME adding weight to the headstock of a Gibson doesn't add any sustain, in fact it seems to kill some sustain.

Now, question...are you 100% sure the rattle is the tuner?? I only ask because rattling kluson style tuners are quite rare if there is string tension on the guitar.

 

[blueman335]

Re: 1959 Les Paul and Grovers

Now, question...are you 100% sure the rattle is the tuner?? I only ask because rattling kluson style tuners are quite rare if there is string tension on the guitar.

+1. My first suspicions would be the bridge or fret buzz. Rattling tuners are pretty rare.

 

[the guy who invented fire]

Re: 1959 Les Paul and Grovers

+1. My first suspicions would be the bridge or fret buzz. Rattling tuners are pretty rare.

I'm thinking retaining wire on the ABR-1...they all rattle until you either stress bend them , locktite them or just take 'em off!

Funny too because the oipen g string g note seems to be the pitch that finds the rattle every time!!!

 

[phil_104]

Re: 1959 Les Paul and Grovers

In my experience, the G is always the string that is giving me the most trouble, either when it comes to the tuner itself, the tuning stability or the bridge. By far my least favourite string.

 

[uOpt]

Re: 1959 Les Paul and Grovers

Another problem with locking tuners, regardless of usefulness, is that with the exception of the sperzels and these vintage style self-locking half-assed things they are even heavier than just regular sealed cast tuners, and the sperzels in turn are not very precise, they have considerable more play than most quality non-locking tuners.

I missed the part where the OP asked for locking tuners?

 

[Christopher Caruana]

Re: 1959 Les Paul and Grovers

Id say its not the tuner that is rattling, but more likely the G saddle @ the bridge. And as far as tuning stability, id either lube the nut or get a new one like a TUSQ XL pre lubed nut

 

[Luke Duke]

Re: 1959 Les Paul and Grovers

Most Grovers are not locking but are just high ratio tuners. Grovers are precise and feel great, thus their popularity. That said they will make your guitar more "headstock heavy" than it currently is. On a personal note I'm not a huge fan of reaming headstocks, it just makes me nervous...coming from a guy who's reamed PRS bodies! Lol

Luke

 

[theWalrus]

Re: 1959 Les Paul and Grovers

Now, question...are you 100% sure the rattle is the tuner?? I only ask because rattling kluson style tuners are quite rare if there is string tension on the guitar.

+1. My first suspicions would be the bridge or fret buzz. Rattling tuners are pretty rare.

I'm thinking retaining wire on the ABR-1...they all rattle until you either stress bend them , locktite them or just take 'em off!

Funny too because the oipen g string g note seems to be the pitch that finds the rattle every time!!!

I missed the part where the OP asked for locking tuners?

Hi Folks, my impression was that the rattle was coming from the tuner, but I'm not really sure. I think I'll just have a tech take a good look at it before I commit to any hardware changes. Thanks for the comments: it could be the bridge, the retaining wire, or some other buzz. Those are things that I can bring up when I take it to the shop, so thank you. I appreciate it.

By the way, from what I read, the open G frequency is related to the resonance of the guitar. Maybe it's just resonance.

It was also good to know your feedback on the advantage locking tuners may actually give. Sounds like it's best to keep the stock tuners because they are lighter. I thought there was a performance advantage to Grovers, explaining the Jimmy Page and Paul Kossoff '59s and Clapton's '63 ES-335 headstocks; I guess that's more of a preference than an upgrade.

 

[blueman335]

Re: 1959 Les Paul and Grovers

it could be the bridge, or the retaining wire.

The usual culprits.