2-conductor pickups LP wiring - with push/pull?

[fingerace]

I need to replace the pots in my Greco LP, they went stratchy and rusty. Maybe I can get away with contact spray, but I might as well change them. I have four new push/pull pots laying around.

The pickups are the old 2-conductor type. What type of wiring can I do to utilise one or two of the push/pull pots? I know that most of these mods require the newer type of pickups. Any wiring scheme to add versatility is welcome. If there are no options I can just do the old standard wiring.

Thank you for your input.

 

[ItsaBass]

Re: 2-conductor pickups LP wiring - with push/pull?

You could wire a phase reversal switch for one of the pickups. With the other switch, you could wire a master series/parallel switch for when you are in the middle toggle switch position. It'd be a very loud and bottom heavy sound. You can't do anything that "goes into" each pickup, though. E.g. no coil splitting or series/parallel coil switching.

 

[fingerace]

Re: 2-conductor pickups LP wiring - with push/pull?

You could wire a phase reversal switch for one of the pickups. With the other switch, you could wire a master series/parallel switch for when you are in the middle toggle switch position. It'd be a very loud and bottom heavy sound. You can't do anything that "goes into" each pickup, though. E.g. no coil splitting or series/parallel coil switching.

Thanks for the quick reply!

With the first one, you mean a phase reversal when I'm in the middle toggle position?

Is there a suitable diagram for this on the SD site, or elsewhere?

 

[ItsaBass]

Re: 2-conductor pickups LP wiring - with push/pull?

Yeah; the phase switch would only change the sound when you are in the middle position. "Out of phase," by definition, incorporates the word with. It compares the phases of at least two components with each other. In order for "OOP" to exist, there have to be at least two components in play.

Take two pickups that share a common polarity. Reverse the polarity of one of them, and the pickups have opposite phases; you can hear it as a loss of certain frequencies, while others are boosted. Then, reverse the polarity of the other, and they are back in phase with each other (though with opposite polarities compared to their original polarities); they sound normal again. Changing the polarity of a pickup does not affect that one pickup's sound, but it does change the tone when both pickups are combined. Therefore it is redundant to use a phase switch on both pickups in a two pickup guitar.

Sorry if that was a bit repetitive, but I hope it was at least clear.

 

[blueman335]

Re: 2-conductor pickups LP wiring - with push/pull?

You could wire a phase reversal switch for one of the pickups. With the other switch, you could wire a master series/parallel switch for when you are in the middle toggle switch position. It'd be a very loud and bottom heavy sound. You can't do anything that "goes into" each pickup, though. E.g. no coil splitting or series/parallel coil switching.

Actually both of them: phase reversal is best when the PU's are linked in series rather than parallel, as otherwise there's a big drop in volume. Doing phase and series/parallel is half of the Jimmy Page system (the other half is coil cut for each PU individually).

 

[ItsaBass]

Re: 2-conductor pickups LP wiring - with push/pull?

Actually both of them: phase reversal is best when the PU's are linked in series rather than parallel, as otherwise there's a big drop in volume. Doing phase and series/parallel is half of the Jimmy Page system (the other half is coil cut for each PU individually).

Yes; both of them is what I suggested. That way you can get both pickup in phase, in series or in parallel, or both pickups out of phase, in series or in parallel.

 

[hermetico]

Re: 2-conductor pickups LP wiring - with push/pull?

This is the Jimmy Page wiring mod:



But, If you can wait this weekend, I will post my "LP Exchanger mod 2" that has same versatily as the JP's one but, with a more "logic" arrangement of controls and easier to memorize how to achieve every sound.
Stay tuned.

 

[blueman335]

Re: 2-conductor pickups LP wiring - with push/pull?

This is the Jimmy Page wiring mod:

View attachment 35692

But, If you can wait this weekend, I will post my "LP Exchanger mod 2" that has same versatily as the JP's one but, with a more "logic" arrangement of controls and easier to memorize how to achieve every sound.
Stay tuned.

Don't forget and leave us hanging.

 

[hermetico]

Re: 2-conductor pickups LP wiring - with push/pull?

Don't forget and leave us hanging.

:naughty:

 

[fingerace]

Re: 2-conductor pickups LP wiring - with push/pull?

Phase change and series/parallel it is then. Thanks for the suggestions.

How would this wiring translate to 2-conductor pickups? Which wires will I need to follow and which ones do I disregard?

 

[hermetico]

Re: 2-conductor pickups LP wiring - with push/pull?

Phase change and series/parallel it is then. Thanks for the suggestions.

How would this wiring translate to 2-conductor pickups? Which wires will I need to follow and which ones do I disregard?

Not good, really.
Are we talking about 2 conductors + ground or just a braided single conductor (correct-vintage) humbucker?.
The issue is that if pickup negative is soldered together with the plate (and cover) ground, the thing will go noisy, when trying the OOP or Series stuff.

 

[fingerace]

Re: 2-conductor pickups LP wiring - with push/pull?

Coaxial braided, with inner wire. I don't have the guitar with me right now, but I'm pretty sure that's what it has.

 

[fingerace]

Re: 2-conductor pickups LP wiring - with push/pull?

Not good, really.
Are we talking about 2 conductors + ground or just a braided single conductor (correct-vintage) humbucker?.
The issue is that if pickup negative is soldered together with the plate (and cover) ground, the thing will go noisy, when trying the OOP or Series stuff.

btw I love your videos man!

 

[Myaccount876]

Re: 2-conductor pickups LP wiring - with push/pull?

You can also convert the pickups to 4-conductor. Not hard at all to do.

 

[hermetico]

Re: 2-conductor pickups LP wiring - with push/pull?

Well, this is really a gift for my bro Blueman335, just for experienced people in hard wirings.



Still had no time to write the entry in my blog.
And still no time to write down the combos.
Will post late combos and, in one or two days, the link to blog's entry.

 

[hermetico]

Re: 2-conductor pickups LP wiring - with push/pull?

Here you are the list of combos:



Just one more combo than the JP's wiring mod and absolutelly no blackout in any position!

But it's also way easier to memorize, to make it short:

Neck Volume = puts the Neck out of phase (when combined with bridge) but, also reverses the coil split for neck pickup.
Bridge Volume = puts both pickups in series, in every position of the 3-way (independently of if they are split or out-of-phase).
Neck Tone = Splits the Neck pickup. If BT is down splits to outer coil, if BT is up to inner coil. If Neck Volume is up, this split system works the oposite.
Bridge Tone = Splits the bridge pickup. If NT is down splits to inner coil, if NT is up to outer coil.

Note: reserve about 6 to 8 hours of hard work. This is how I actually have wired my LP-Clone so, 100% sure it works.
Note: when both pickups are in series, the neck volume becomes some sort of master volume, even that you can still reduce the loudness of bridge pickup with its volume pot.
Note: independent volumes (except what mentioned above) and '50s tone mod (this removes a bit the darkness of humbuckers and provides an smoother roll off of threbles when rolling off volumes, no need for a treble bleed)

 

[fingerace]

Re: 2-conductor pickups LP wiring - with push/pull?

So nothing other than the traditional wiring can be done on 2-conductor humbuckers? Assuming they are correct-vintage as hermetico put it...

 

[hermetico]

Re: 2-conductor pickups LP wiring - with push/pull?

So nothing other than the traditional wiring can be done on 2-conductor humbuckers? Assuming they are correct-vintage as hermetico put it...

Disapointing but, that is.
You would be able to do a bit (OOP and Series) if they were at least 2-conductor + shield (the plate/cover shield in a separated wire).
If you are not done to that, you can still go to some luthier to convert your 2-conductor humbuckers in 4-conductors (+ shield) ones.