2 single coils on together...still not humbucking

[Mincer]

Ok...
The neck is a Classic Stack Plus
Middle is a Five-two. RW/RP
Bridge is a C5

megaswitch model e

In positions 2, 3, 4 they hum as loud as a typical single coil. In position2, neck and middle, the neck is split, so it isn't using the bottom coil. It is in phase with the middle, but it hums- and it isn't supposed to. Position 3 on the switch is the split neck, with the bridge ( screw) coil of the C5. It should be hum canceling too, but isn't. Position 4, is the middle with the stud coil of the C5... Also not canceling hum.
I have it wired like the HB-SC-HB diagram on the Schaller page. So what did I do wrong? Is it a matter of reversing wires? The neck and bridge alone are dead silent.

 

[uOpt]

Re: 2 single coils on together...still not humbucking

If you don't want hum canceling you can combine the single with either humbucker coil in-phase (making it in-phase by reversing the wires). However, only one of those will be hum canceling and the other will hum. If you don't get the coil you want you can flip the magnet, in which case the other coil will be in-phase humbucking.

 

[Mincer]

Re: 2 single coils on together...still not humbucking

Ah..that is just it...I'd like it all to be in phase and quiet. According to the diagram, it is possible, but I am not so sure,

 

[uOpt]

Re: 2 single coils on together...still not humbucking

You are also splitting the stack. Oh my. Let's concentrate on the hummelbucker and position 4.

You have it the way you want but it hums. So you have two options: 1: use the other coil or 2: reverse phase on either pickup and flip the magnet in the bucker

Careful flipping the phase on the middle pickup because you are not free to do as you please if you want to split the stack. Only one coil in a stack is usable so you phase in the middle must be opposite of the usable coil (the upper coil). I assume you checked that the stack and the middle are opposite polarity of each other, right? If not you can't do it.

 

[Mincer]

Re: 2 single coils on together...still not humbucking

First, thanks for helping me sort this out. The middle is rw/RP from the stack and the HB. Concentrating on the HB, I can reverse the black and green wires, and get the other coil in position 4....it will also switch the coils in position 3. Also, i dont care which coil of the hb is active during the splits, as long as it is in phase and quiet. These would get the right coils, but it might screw up the phase. As far as the stack goes, I don't have an option, since I can't split it any other way. I can leave it I split, but then I will still get hum from other coils it combines with.

 

[uOpt]

Re: 2 single coils on together...still not humbucking

First, thanks for helping me sort this out. The middle is rw/RP from the stack and the HB. Concentrating on the HB, I can reverse the black and green wires, and get the other coil in position 4....it will also switch the coils in position 3. Also, i dont care which coil of the hb is active during the splits, as long as it is in phase and quiet. These would get the right coils, but it might screw up the phase. As far as the stack goes, I don't have an option, since I can't split it any other way. I can leave it I split, but then I will still get hum from other coils it combines with.

OK, so you want to keep the humbucker coil you have right now in position 3, but you must use the same one in 4 due to the wiring and it doesn't cancel hum (and is in-phase). Then you must flip the magnet and reverse the wires on either the whole humbucker or the middle single coil.

Now, I recommend trying that first before moving on to position 2 and the neck/middle combo but as a heads-up:

If, for position 2, you are currently in-phase but have no hum canceling then the magnetic polarity of one of the suckers isn't what it is supposed to be. Because you will get hum canceling if you reverse one pickup's wires but then you are out of phase from the magnets and you can't switch magnetic polarity in the single or the stack. Your first step is making triple sure that things are currently in-phase in position 2, and test the polarity of the magnets. Middle and neck pickups should attract each other if you put their tops together (which would mean opposite polarity, which is what you need here).

I suspect (and hope) that you are currently out of phase, otherwise your stack is same polarity as the rwrp and to make things work you would have to get a non-rw/rp middle pickup. If that is the case I recommend you'd do that right now because then you skip the work on the bridge pickup.

 

[Mincer]

Re: 2 single coils on together...still not humbucking

Ok.. The only thing I would change about what you said is that in position 3, I don't actually care what coil of the humbucker is active, I just want it in phase and humbucking with the neck coil. What I am suspecting is the middle isn't Rw/rp, but I will test that the polarity just to be sure. Of course the middle pickup being wrong doesn't explain the hum on position 3, when the middle is not involved. Funny thing, is that everything right now, with the hum, sounds in phase, just not humcancelling whe 2 pickups are used together.

EDIT: Position 3 seems to be OK: I re-soldered some connections and it is pretty quiet, so I think position 3 is solved. It is just 2 & 4 now that hum, but are in phase.

 

[uOpt]

Re: 2 single coils on together...still not humbucking

Uh, can you list what which position is supposed to do?

Pos 3 is neck and bridge with no middle?

 

[Mincer]

Re: 2 single coils on together...still not humbucking

Oh yeah..sorry...
1. Neck full
2. Neck spit with middle
3, neck split with bridge split
4. Middle with bridge split
5. Bridge full

All positions should be humbucking according to the schaller website.

 

[Mincer]

Re: 2 single coils on together...still not humbucking

Update: I have removed the neck stack, and placed it on top of the middle SC, and guess what? Their tops repel each other! If they are supposed to attract each other, my guess is this is why they are not cancelling any hum. That explains the noise in position 2. Funny, the middle is labeled RW/RP, which is what I ordered- and the neck isn't. Maybe stacks are RW/RP compared to normal single coils, I don't know. But this is certainly what is going on here in position 2.
So, I could do a few things. If I switch out the middle SC for one of 'normal' polarity, it would solve the noise issues of position 2, and position 4. Position 3 would still have noise though, which is why it is baffling. I am not sure the switch can do what I want.

 

[uOpt]

Re: 2 single coils on together...still not humbucking

If you exchange the middle one for a non-rp, then you can reverse the humbucker twice, both polarity and phase (flip magnet and use other coil) and you should be all set.

I had a feeling that the stack might not obey to the normal rules of what's RP and what isn't.

 

[Mincer]

Re: 2 single coils on together...still not humbucking

Yeah, this is my guess...so what I'd look for is a non-RW/RP middle SC, and I'd be set. Testing under a lot of gain today, I noticed that position 3, neck split & HB split, is actually pretty quiet. So I am mostly concerned about positions 2 & 4, which are not. So, I think getting a 'normal' wound pickup in there will cure the problem. Strange how the stacks aren't the same polarity as the rest of the line, though.

 

[IMENATOR]

Re: 2 single coils on together...still not humbucking

Mince, did you get it hum canceling with the non-RW/RP middle SC and the classic stack? I was refraining myself to use my STK-S6 and a regular SSL-1 because I was thinking it would not cancel hum. Anyway this was an interesting finding of yours, I confirmed my pickups repel each other as well.

 

[Artie]

Re: 2 single coils on together...still not humbucking

For what its worth, an RW/RP single is hum-cancelling with the "stud" coil of a Duncan HB.

 

[gregory]

Re: 2 single coils on together...still not humbucking

This important thread was recently linked, but in absolute/general terms the following quote isn't true:

For what its worth, an RW/RP single is hum-cancelling with the "stud" coil of a Duncan HB.

While it appears to be true for the stacks, this isn't the case for just about every true single by Duncan such as the SSL-1, SSL-2 ... SSL-7 and Alnico 2 Pros. A (the?) notable exceptions are the Antiquity Texas Hots.

 

[Mincer]

Re: 2 single coils on together...still not humbucking

As a follow up on this, 5 years later (wow!), I wrote a blog about it.

 

[gregory]

Re: 2 single coils on together...still not humbucking

Considering the subjects of splitting and combining different pickup types are quite regular I think we need a sticky that provides accurate info regarding the polarity of all Duncan true and stacked single coils.

It would go a long way in avoiding confusion and correcting false information.

 

[Teleplayer]

Re: 2 single coils on together...still not humbucking

Quote from blog "Seymour Duncan makes noiseless Strat pickups using either a stacked or side-by-side design. I started with this idea, choosing the Classic Strat Stack Plus for the neck position. This pickup can be split, so when it is used in conjunction with another rw/rp single coil, it will cancel the hum, and give a better quacky, notchy sound."

The part where it says rw/rp single-coil doesn't make sense to me. If I'm reading it correctly, isn't the point of this thread that you need to use a regular Duncan single coil in the middle to make it hum cancelling?

 

[Mincer]

Re: 2 single coils on together...still not humbucking

I think it is just my thought process. I started with an idea, then realized that I needed a rw/rp in the neck instead of the middle to make it hum cancelling all around. But usually, you can split the Classic stack and run it in conjunction with a rw/rp single coil. If the Classic Stck is already rw/rp, then you use a regular single.