2013 Gibson Les Paul Standard barely producing sound/signal

[SZjammin83]

I just bought a 2013 Les Paul via private sale. Its immaculate aside from one issue... Which happens to be a fairly large one.

When I pull up the bridge tone and put it in "bypass" mode, it will blow my doors completely off. However, that's the only playable option as of now. When I push the bridge tone back in, there is very little to no sound at all, depending on how loud I have the amp cranked. If I crank it, I do get signal and hear sound, it's just so low that it's not even playable.

I've used DeOxit on all the pots and the 3 way toggle to no avail. Just dont know what it could be. Maybe a grounding issue? But where? And where to start as far as diagnosing the problem? I have a multi meter that measures continuity, just not sure how the procedure goes on a les paul, or a guitar in general.

FWIW, the guitars electronics are all connected to a PCB. I know that this is sacrilege based on what I've read on forums, but if there is a solution that will enable me to get her up and running WITHOUT trashing the PCB and rewiring the whole guitar, I would prefer doing it that way... any and all suggestions/ advice gratefully accepted. Thanks in advance for the time and consideration forum

 

[beaubrummels]

What is it supposed to be doing when the bridge tone is up? Is that splitting the bridge? Or is it a blower switch?

If your getting signal I don’t think it is a ground problem, but does sound like a wire has become dislodged/disconnected.

Does the 3-way pickup selector do anything when the bridge tone is up and also when it is down?

My first thought would be to set it to what should be a known working position, like bridge only selected, no split coil, and trace continuity from the jack to each connection in the chain until you reach the bridge pickup itself.

 

[SZjammin83]

What is it supposed to be doing when the bridge tone is up? Is that splitting the bridge? Or is it a blower switch?

If your getting signal I don’t think it is a ground problem, but does sound like a wire has become dislodged/disconnected.

Does the 3-way pickup selector do anything when the bridge tone is up and also when it is down?

My first thought would be to set it to what should be a known working position, like bridge only selected, no split coil, and trace continuity from the jack to each connection in the chain until you reach the bridge pickup itself.

This particular guitar has 4 push/pull pots in total. If my memory serves me correctly, its the same PCB and ,electronics setup as the 2019/2020 Les Paul HP (High Performance) models. The bridge and neck volumes are the coil splits, and then the neck tone control push/pull activates an out of phase feature when in the up position. Lastly, the bridge volume control is a bypass feature (not a blow switch or boost as in some other models). What this feature does is, when it is lifted into the up position it FULLY bypasses ALL the other electronic components COMPLETELY, and gives you a 100% all bridge, full on, unadulterated humbucker tone, similar to a boost, only rather than adding a 9v battery and simply boosting the bridge by 10db as is (with caps, pots, bleeders, etc. in the signal path) what this particular model does is, it actually takes away or otherwise "bypasses" ALL the electronics except for the bridge humbucker (so, no caps, pots, bleeders, etc.) and gives you just a straight, full on, balls to the wall bridge humbucker tone.

It's the first time I've played/owned a guitar with such an option, and the nature of the way in which it functions (essentially disconnecting or otherwise removing all the electronics from the signal) leaves me at a loss as to what it could possibly be thats causing the entire setup NOT to function when its out of bypass mode, because in this situation, the fact that the bridge pickup works in bypass means absolutely nothing in relation to any of the other electronics, shy of the fact that it confirms the fact that the bridge pickup isn't bad and is not the problem.

 

[SZjammin83]

Also... The 3-way toggle will still switch pickups properly, But doesn't function at all when the bridge tone control is in the up position. The bypass removes the three way toggle from the equation as well. When the bridge tone control is in the up position, you get the bridge humbucker and ONLY the bridge humbucker and ALL of the bridge humbucker, no matter what the settings are when you lift the bridge tone control knob/switch.

If I crank my amp, I can get sound, but very very little, and certainly not usable. However, it is enough to where I can use the 3 way toggle (when the bridge tone control/switch is in the DOWN position) and hear that it is infact switching from pickup to pickup as it should.

 

[Mincer]

I'm not for ripping out perfectly working parts, so let's figure out if it is a part that broke or something else. I also would like to know what that pot does. Is there a battery that has to be replaced?

 

[Lewguitar]

I'd start by carefully unplugging each connection ONE AT A TIME and looking at the pins and making sure they're straight. I'd check the wires and make sure they're not bent or broken and then plug it back in.

You might need to pull the knobs and remove the circuit board and inspect it from the back side for a broken solder joint.

Or maybe the switch itself is broken internally.

If all else fails I'd take it to a tech. A REALLY GOOD ONE. Not a kid or a hack who thinks he's a tech but isn't. Have you contacted Gibson?

 

[ehdwuld]

Sounds like an out of phase switch

Do you have a digital multimeter

Plug in a guitar cable
With the volume all the way up on both pickups

S
Switch and read all three positions
Neck
Neck and bridge
Bridge

Now with the switch pulled up

Take the readings on tip and sleeve of the exposed end of the cable

Could be a loose wire on the push pull

 

[ErikH]

That's a Les Paul Traditional II. Push/pull on the volumes split the pickups like the Trad Pro but the tones now have push/pulls, one is a blower and the other one is a phase switch. A multi-meter would be useful here. Start with one section at a time to verify continuity. You should be able to get a solid DC reading of the bridge pickup through all points to the output jack with the blower disengaged. Same with the neck.

 

[SZjammin83]

That's a Les Paul Traditional II. Push/pull on the volumes split the pickups like the Trad Pro but the tones now have push/pulls, one is a blower and the other one is a phase switch. A multi-meter would be useful here. Start with one section at a time to verify continuity. You should be able to get a solid DC reading of the bridge pickup through all points to the output jack with the blower disengaged. Same with the neck.

It's a 2013 Gibson Les Paul STANDARD. It's all 100% stock. Ive already contacted Gibson after I purchased the guitar and got it home. Cross Referenced the Serial Number and took it apart and sent them pictures and it is a STANDARD, and everything in it and on it is exactly the way it was when it left the Gibson shop. I think whoever bought it never even played it. There were barely any signs of wear. This guitar looks better and plays better than every Les Paul I played at guitar center, and it's got a killer amber finish that they didn't have either. I don't like the idea of spending this kind of money on a guitar by ordering it online either. I don't trust ANY COMPANY's QC with $2000, and have no desire to get caught up in the whole returns process via shipping back and forth. Just the thought of all that makes me sick. This guitar is magnifacent. Ive owned alot of guitars and still have several other great ones. But a Les Paul has always just felt like "home" to me. This is my 2nd Gibson. My other is a 2011 wine red Traditional. It is amazing as well and was almost in as great a condition when I bought it 2nd hand, but still, this one is better and was all but immaculate. I've heard people talk about shopping for a Les Paul and how none of them are exactly alike and that when you find the right one, you just know. Well, this one was, and is, THE ONE. And in spite of the issue I was having, it still is, and now, it's even more amazing. This guitar is AMAZING, and I can say that this is the 1st guitar I have ever owned that I WILL NOT EVER part with... EVER. It is everything I ever dreamed about from the day I decided as a kid that one day, I would save enough to have the Gibson Les Paul I dreamt about for so many years. It's everything I thought it would be and MORE.

Thanks for all the replies. I never found out what the issue was, but I was itching to play this guitar so badly, that I just went ahead and ordered a Mojotone Wiring Kit and installed it yesterday afternoon, and now, I can honestly say that I could not ask for anything more from a guitar and I love everything about it. PROBLEM SOLVED! The push/pull features were the one thing that were never a priority. All the push/pull's in the world will never make a Les Paul sound like a Strat, and thats something I learned and accepted LONG ago. I have a Strat as well, and if I want Strat tone, I play the Strat. So, I ordered the straight up Les Paul 50's wiring kit. It's got three settings. The 3 settings a Les Paul is supposed to have, and all a Les Paul needs. NOTHING more, NOTHING less. I installed it, and have been in awe since. The only "bells and whistles" are the solderless harness for the pickup leads. I love it. Now, I can swap pickups anytime and it will never take longer than 10-20 mins (not including the string change, add 5-10 mins there because the locking Grovers make that a breeze, and those Grovers are the smoothest and by far the best all around tuning machines I have ever used/owned. They are the Mercedes Benz of tuners). I have the Burstbucker Pro's that came stock in the guitar, but I've already ordered some SD ANP2 Slash pickups, a Gibson 57 Classic/57 Classic Plus set, as well as a JB/Jazz set, all 3 sets I ordered with nickel covers (raw nickel on the Slash set) so that I can keep the exact look of the guitar as it was made, which I LOVE.

So now, I've got my Gibson Les Paul Standard to play with my 2 new amps (a 2010 made in USA Peavey 6505+ 120 watt head, and a 2020 Marshall DSL40CR 1x12 40 watt combo, both of which I run through my Mesa 2x12 Rectifier Cab with Celestion Vintage 30's) and while my girlfriend finds it all extremely lackluster, I myself have been enjoying every second of my time off work. It took ALOT of wheeling and dealing to get this setup with everything exactly as I've wanted (I was looking for a DSL100HR, but honestly, I've got the 6 button footswitch with the 40, and its so badass, that I'd rather keep what I have than to let it go for the 100 and then find that I liked the 40 better. Plus, I'm gonna throw a Vintage 30 in the Combo, and I like the idea that if I ever want to take just enough with me to practice away from the Man Cave at home, I can just throw the Combo in the car and be good to go) but now that I've got the Les Paul at 100%, it was all more than well worth the time, effort, and money put into getting all this gear together.

Thanks again to everyone for your replies. Glad I'm able to reply back with the 100% positive solution in play and working out great! Cheers!!

 

[ErikH]

Glad you got it worked out. A buddy of mine has a Trad Pro 2 with those same exact features. That's why I mentioned it. Totally didn't realize that the Standard came with all of that too then. I have a 2008 Trad Pro and it has coil splits on the neck and bridge but with traditional wiring, no PCB. A fantastic guitar. The neck is the 60's slim but it's not too slim, very comfortable. I pulled the BB3 in favor of a Super Distortion for a while but put a Custom Custom in the bridge last night. It sounds fantastic. The '57 Classic in the neck is staying put.

 

[beaubrummels]

Lotta great records, and a great variety of music, made with a simple Les Paul into a Marshall. Glad you like it so much. Sounds like you reached the same conclusion about a Les Paul so many of the rest of us came to also.

Hey if you don't want the circuit board, I'll take it off you (if you aren't doing anything with it. I'd like to troubleshoot it. If I could get it to work, I'd like to try it in my LP Studio, which had a basic circuit board before.

 

[nexion218]

^^My thoughts exactly. While its out of the guitar, it is easy to troubleshoot and salvage the circuit.

 

[Mincer]

I'd still be curious enough to look at the non-working parts and try to figure out what the deal is. I am happy the new parts work, but I am still curious.

 

[SZjammin83]

 

[Adieu]

That's so weird

Was there perhaps any kind of battery (maybe like a watch battery?) in the PCB? It doesn't sound like there should be one, but the symptoms are very much like an unpowered active circuit

 

[SZjammin83]

Glad you got it worked out. A buddy of mine has a Trad Pro 2 with those same exact features. That's why I mentioned it. Totally didn't realize that the Standard came with all of that too then. I have a 2008 Trad Pro and it has coil splits on the neck and bridge but with traditional wiring, no PCB. A fantastic guitar. The neck is the 60's slim but it's not too slim, very comfortable. I pulled the BB3 in favor of a Super Distortion for a while but put a Custom Custom in the bridge last night. It sounds fantastic. The '57 Classic in the neck is staying put.

I can't wait to try the new pickups. I like the Burstbucker Pro's, but I think the neck is a bit hotter than I like, or perhaps not necessarily hotter, just not as warm as I like. I love the 57 and 57+ set. I don't blame you leaving that 57 in the neck position, they sound awesome.

As far as the PCB goes, I think I am going to do exactly like everyone here has suggested and pull out the ol' multimeter and and do some poking around. I'm not too bad at soldering, so if I can find out whats wrong with it, I figured I will fix it and keep it around for "just incase s%$#". Never know when you're gonna need a spare part for one thing or another. And when I do figure out what's going on with it, I will get back up here and add it to this thread. Hopefully if someone else has this issue, they might find this thread and come up with a solution that works for them.

FWIW, I've also found another company called OBSIDIAN WIRE, and they too make replacement electronics for all types of guitars, Gibson's included. They have a PCB direct drop in replacement for this application, and the best part is, theirs incorporates the solderless pickup install feature as well. To me, it's well worth $150 (actually a bit less for my Mojotone) just for that upgrade alone. The idea that I can swap out and try new pickups in a plug and play manner that makes it just as quick and easy as performing a string change, is just AWESOME. And if you were to decide that the grass isn't greener on the other side, you don't have to cut or de-solder, which makes returns alot easier being able to return pickups as they were when you recieved them. It's just a pretty darn sweet innovation I think.