250K, 500K, 1 Meg.

Mid_Squad

Mid_Squad

New member
What exactly do these do to the sound of the pickups. I'm talking about using for both volume and tone. I know the whole thing about single coils usually use 250K and humbuckers 500K, but I also know you can switch them around. Just looking for a quick lesson about what the different levels do in the volume and the tone. I don't really care about what it all stands for, just what it does.
 
Re: 250K, 500K, 1 Meg.

In general:

Lower value pots cause more treble to be bled to the ground. They also have a tendency to smooth out the response of a pickup. 250k pots are generally used for strat style single coils. 500k pots can be used for hotter single coils over 9k resistance and humbuckers. 1 meg pots aren't used that often and can be used with hot humbuckers since they bleed the least amount of treble. Generally a pickup with more turns of wire on a bobbin will have a higher resistance reading and the tone of that coil will become darker and more compressed.
 
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Re: 250K, 500K, 1 Meg.

Some of us use 250K's on bridge PU's, regardless of whether they are HB or SC (for the warmth), and 500K's on the neck (for the treble and clarity).
 
Re: 250K, 500K, 1 Meg.

The higher the value, the louder the inherent tone of the pickup. Not brighter. They raise the volume of the peak of the pickup, but they don't change the EQ, so they don't make it brigther. A dark pickup will not get brigther. Don't know why everyone gives this advice, but I also don't want to offend. I just have never hear it that way. Higher value also makes the pickup gnarlier, if that's a word. Lower is smoother. 500 neck, 250 bridge is a good place to start.
 
Re: 250K, 500K, 1 Meg.

250K vs. 500K pots...

250K pots give a slightly warmer tone than 500K because the 250K bleeds off some of the high frequencies.

250K = warmer
500K = brighter
1 Meg = brighter yet

Yes, brighter.
 
Re: 250K, 500K, 1 Meg.

SMark said:
250K vs. 500K pots...

250K pots give a slightly warmer tone than 500K because the 250K bleeds off some of the high frequencies.

250K = warmer
500K = brighter
1 Meg = brighter yet

Yes, brighter.
Click to expand...


Let's get some 20 Meg pots for the people complaining that their tone knob robs them of their tone.:joke:
 
Re: 250K, 500K, 1 Meg.

Kind of makes you wonder why we don't all use 1 meg, doesn't it? Who doesn't want a the ability to simply get brighter, by just rolling up the knob?

I think the best thing you could do, is try all three, and tell us, how you hear it.
 
Re: 250K, 500K, 1 Meg.

The Usual said:
Kind of makes you wonder why we don't all use 1 meg, doesn't it? Who doesn't want a the ability to simply get brighter, by just rolling up the knob?
Click to expand...

I'd only want more treble on a neck PU. I certainly don't want to 'roll up the knob" to get more treble on the bridge, where there's always an abundance to begin with. I'm in the process of forming a society that's trying to cure the "shrill bridge-muffled neck" syndrome that plagues so many guitars.
 
Re: 250K, 500K, 1 Meg.

A potentiometer (also known as a Variable Resistor) cannot add that which isn't there already. It can only affect the "potential" output of the pickup. A 1Meg pot on 10 is generally regarded as the same as having the pickup wired straight to the jack.

However, this does not necessarily mean that a 500K pot is the same as having a 1Meg pot on 5, nor is 250K the same as having a 1Meg pot on 2 1/2.

Each pot type has a "peak" resistance to the pickup's signal (1Meg (none or almost no resistance), 500K, 250K) and the resistance increases as you turn the knob down, until it is at 0, which means it is 100% resistant to the incoming signal of the pickup (in the case of a Volume knob where one outer post is grounded).

In the case of a Tone pot, it is reacting to the signal after it passes through the Volume pot. A Tone pot that is of a lower rating than the Volume pot will cause that much more of the signal to be resisted. A Tone pot of a higher rating than the Volume pot will not increase any incoming signal, but will behave as if the Tone pot doesn't exist when on full (10).


That being the case, anyone ever wire a pickup to a volume AND tone pot in parallel? Meaning it goes to the Volume pot AND the Tone pot and then both go to the jack, without the signal of the Volume pot going into the Tone?
 
Re: 250K, 500K, 1 Meg.

No, what does that sound like?

And I am a firm believer that what many describe as brightness, is really an increase in volume of upper mids. If you could simply add clear brightness to any pickup, most people would find a use for that. Think of lipstick pickups. Does a 1 meg get a humbucker to move in that direction at all? Nope.
 
Re: 250K, 500K, 1 Meg.

No, that's what I was asking - has anyone ever done it? I certainly haven't, I only just thought of it :lol:

Might try it over the weekend, though :D

And it can't be an increase in anything. Maybe stepping up from 500K to 1Meg is allowing more of what was already there to be heard, but I simply cannot accept the notion that a standard (non-active) pot adds anything. Unless of course the material itself injects some form of tonal coloring? Like how Germanium resistors in old Neve consoles gave everything "that sound".
 
Re: 250K, 500K, 1 Meg.

If you really want to hear the net effect of it all, get a 250k no-load tone pot. When you dial it into the notch just past 10, you effectively take it out of the circuit. I use them on many of my Strats. When I go from the full-up 250k value into the notch, I hear the tone get... brighter. Useful with some pickups, not so useful with others.

YMMV.
 
Re: 250K, 500K, 1 Meg.

DrNewcenstein said:
No, that's what I was asking - has anyone ever done it? I certainly haven't, I only just thought of it :lol:

Might try it over the weekend, though :D

And it can't be an increase in anything. Maybe stepping up from 500K to 1Meg is allowing more of what was already there to be heard, but I simply cannot accept the notion that a standard (non-active) pot adds anything. Unless of course the material itself injects some form of tonal coloring? Like how Germanium resistors in old Neve consoles gave everything "that sound".
Click to expand...

That's too funny. I'll have to try it and let you know.

Still don't hear the no pot thing as "brighther". More "louder" with additional brightness, mids, and bass for that matter, in the same proportion of the pickup's inherent EQ. That is not adding brightness. But maybe my ears need new pots! I think something may be wrong with me, because I seem to be the only one who hears it this way.
 
Re: 250K, 500K, 1 Meg.

blueman335 said:
I'd only want more treble on a neck PU. I certainly don't want to 'roll up the knob" to get more treble on the bridge, where there's always an abundance to begin with. I'm in the process of forming a society that's trying to cure the "shrill bridge-muffled neck" syndrome that plagues so many guitars.
Click to expand...

You already have me signed up....the cure?? Phat Cat Neck with an a5!!!
 
Re: 250K, 500K, 1 Meg.

The volume control in a passive guitar circuit does a little more than just regulate the output level of the signal at the output jack. That's why, as DrN stated, a 250K ohm volume control is not the equivalent of just turning a 500k ohm pot up halfway.

Because the circuit in a guitar is not just resistive, but has inductive (the pickups) and capacitive (the tone control) components, the resistive value of the volume pot affects the resonant frequency of the circuit. It affects the EQ.

I haven't done extensive experimentation with this in guitars, except with a couple of mine that have JB bridge pickups. The JB has less lower mids (all the chunk is gone) with a 500k ohm pot and more mids with a 250k ohm pot. I think the resonant frequency may be moved higher with the 500k ohm pot, resulting in a gap in the mids, and a brittle, jangly high end with the 500k ohm pot.

Other humbuckers are voiced to sound right with the 500k ohm pot. I wouldn't know how most of them sound with a 250k ohm pot.
 
Re: 250K, 500K, 1 Meg.

Great info on this thread!!! All I know is the 500K sounds brighter than a 250K. I am pretty happy with my CC and Texas Specials in my strat with a 500K volume, 250K for the singles and 500K for the bridge. However, everytime I hear a JB, I get soooooooooo tempted to buy one!
 
Re: 250K, 500K, 1 Meg.

While we are on the subject, anyone ever see/hear any sound files with just pot values changed? I think we may need to have some of these for posterity. THis one comes up fairly often, but I have never seen a pure pot value shootout.
 
Re: 250K, 500K, 1 Meg.

The Usual said:
The higher the value, the louder the inherent tone of the pickup. Not brighter. They raise the volume of the peak of the pickup, but they don't change the EQ, so they don't make it brigther. A dark pickup will not get brigther. Don't know why everyone gives this advice, but I also don't want to offend. I just have never hear it that way. Higher value also makes the pickup gnarlier, if that's a word. Lower is smoother. 500 neck, 250 bridge is a good place to start.
Click to expand...

Lower is smoother is another way of saying lower = less bright. Which in turn means higher = brighter.

The guitar sounds brighter (and yes, louder) with a higher value pot. A very similar effect is when I make no-plate Tele bridge pu vs. standard Tele bridge with the traditional steel baseplate. The nature of the coil doesn't change but the baseplate puts a bit of a muzzle on the higher freq's and the overall output.

I know a higher value pot doesn't add something that isn't already there in the pickup -- we're talking passive electronics after all -- it just takes the muzzle off. Just like tromping the gas doesn't give your engine more horsepower, it just lets the existing horses loose.
 
Re: 250K, 500K, 1 Meg.

blueman335 said:
I'd only want more treble on a neck PU. I certainly don't want to 'roll up the knob" to get more treble on the bridge, where there's always an abundance to begin with. I'm in the process of forming a society that's trying to cure the "shrill bridge-muffled neck" syndrome that plagues so many guitars.
Click to expand...

Well, the first step in your plan should be to sell your Les Pauls then. ;)

Anyway, I just wanted to point out that a tone control doesn't add treble. It's a passive control and passive controls can't add anything. When you turn the tone down, you're taking away treble. The tone and volume all the way up is the "natural" sound of the pickup.
 
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