250K, 500K, 1 Meg.

[The Usual]

Re: 250K, 500K, 1 Meg.

Lower is smoother is another way of saying lower = less bright. Which in turn means higher = brighter.

The guitar sounds brighter (and yes, louder) with a higher value pot. A very similar effect is when I make no-plate Tele bridge pu vs. standard Tele bridge with the traditional steel baseplate. The nature of the coil doesn't change but the baseplate puts a bit of a muzzle on the higher freq's and the overall output.

I know a higher value pot doesn't add something that isn't already there in the pickup -- we're talking passive electronics after all -- it just takes the muzzle off. Just like tromping the gas doesn't give your engine more horsepower, it just lets the existing horses loose.

That's kind of like saying driving the front of an amp into disortion is brighter than the smooth tone of not driving the amp into distortion. Louder or grittier is not brigther, and smoother is not darker. I get what you are trying to say, but it's not neccesarily an accurate anology.

As for traditional tele bridge vs. non-magnetic or modern, there is a whole lot going on there. In the end, it is the magnetic field being extended via the steel that makes the difference. But I don't like to talk about this little secret too much. shhh!

I guess what I am asking is, how exactly does increasing the value of the pot only take the muzzle off of the highs?

 

[Zhangliqun]

Re: 250K, 500K, 1 Meg.

That's kind of like saying driving the front of an amp into disortion is brighter than the smooth tone of not driving the amp into distortion. Louder or grittier is not brigther, and smoother is not darker. I get what you are trying to say, but it's not neccesarily an accurate anology.

I'm not talking about hammering the preamp or louder/grittier. You need to crank up the lows and mids to push the preamp like that, and the amount of overall output increase from changing to a higher pot value isn't enough to do that. But it will sound brighter because it will leak less top end to ground.

As for traditional tele bridge vs. non-magnetic or modern, there is a whole lot going on there. In the end, it is the magnetic field being extended via the steel that makes the difference. But I don't like to talk about this little secret too much. shhh!

That's a big part of the Tele tone, but the baseplate is a factor too, keeps it from getting the dread Strat icepick sound by dragging some of the magnetic field away from the strings. I make these pickups so I know a little about them too.

I guess what I am asking is, how exactly does increasing the value of the pot only take the muzzle off of the highs?

By putting more resistance between the wiper and the ground lug, thus leaking less treble to ground.

Secondly, I didn't say only highs, I said overall output increases too, but the increase in db of the top end relative to the rest of the spectrum is greater. Otherwise it would sound exactly the same as with a lower value pot, just louder.

 

[ratherdashing]

Re: 250K, 500K, 1 Meg.

I guess what I am asking is, how exactly does increasing the value of the pot only take the muzzle off of the highs?

Electricity is always trying to find the easiest path to ground. The pot acts as a "bridge" between the guitar signal and the ground. The higher value the pot, the more resistance the pot offers, and thus it's harder for signal to get across that bridge. When the pot is on 10, it's nearly impossible for signal to cross over the track on the pot to ground, but some of it does get there. A 250k pot lets a lot more through to ground than a 1 meg pot does.

I'm not entirely sure why, but high frequencies are better able to cross that bridge than low frequencies are. This is the same reason why you lose treble as you turn the volume down (unless you have a treble bleed circuit or something like that) - the highs are the first to go when a path to ground is established.

So basically, the higher value pot you use, the less treble you lose through the pot.

Hopefully that makes sense.

 

[Zhangliqun]

Re: 250K, 500K, 1 Meg.

The Dash-meister has it!

 

[DrNewcenstein]

Re: 250K, 500K, 1 Meg.

High frequency impulses are traveling faster, hence they'll get to ground faster, and that's why they're the first/most noticeably affected by the pot values.

 

[The Usual]

Re: 250K, 500K, 1 Meg.

Secondly, I didn't say only highs, I said overall output increases too, but the increase in db of the top end relative to the rest of the spectrum is greater. Otherwise it would sound exactly the same as with a lower value pot, just louder.

Now you are talking my language. This is how I hear it also. I just think that a lot of people around here suggest increased pot values to add "brightness" without telling the whole picture. That the pickup will sound grainier, louder, more aggressive, and add some high end as well.

I went through this based on advice from this board, and was a little surprised at what happens to the sound. THere is a reason that most people don't use 1 meg pots, and it's not brightness.

I also appreciate the technical talk about higher frequencies moving to ground easier than lower frequencies. I did not know that.

 

[DrNewcenstein]

Re: 250K, 500K, 1 Meg.

Well, that part's self-explanatory once you relate electrical impulses to physically flowing current like water - a flash flood (high-frequency current) can break through a dam, whereas a stream (low-frequency current) is blocked.

Frequency being defined here as strength of the current, based on the amount of time it takes to get from point A to point B - high-frequency waves (current of water, sound, or electricity) can travel farther faster than a wave of half the speed (or of less frequency).

You can look at the pot values not for how much they inhibit, but how much they let through. A 250K pot will redirect 750 Kilocycles to ground while allowing 250K to go to the Output, and a 1Meg will pass almost 0 high frequencies to ground, allowing almost 100% to go to the Output.

 

[The Usual]

Re: 250K, 500K, 1 Meg.

So basically, on their own, pickups sound like sh%t?
For the most part?