2x12 vs 4x12

[The Golden Boy]

Re: 2x12 vs 4x12

^thats a good synopsis. the main amps Ive played are an open back 2x12 combo and a 4x12 jcm 800 which sounded nothing like each other. I dont have alot of experience with closed back cabs so that is interesting to me

I've been playing the 70's MV heads forever- and I've run across a few of the JMP MV combos over the years- while it makes sense that I'd like those- none of them have "floated my boat" so to speak. Again, (going into the "combo" thread) they're open back combos- the head unit is exactly the same and they have the same black/cream back speakers- they're NOT the same thing in one compact package.

The 2x12 cab I've been using for the past 10+ years or so has gone through several sets of speakers, had the insulation torn out, insulation put in, speakers rear mounted, speakers front mounted, the back panel removed...

I guess if you go into playing a cab for what it is, and not what you want it to be- that's how you should approach it. Although I'd love to not haul a 4x12- it's the only thing that really does it for me. I'm fortunate enough to have found a well constructed 2x12- I've been fortunate enough to have scored some really nifty sounding speakers that go well in the cab. They're a great combination together- but they're not a 4x12 in sound or feel in a smaller package.

 

[doveman]

Re: 2x12 vs 4x12

Maybe the point is cruising right over my head.

Are you saying that 2 2x12 cabinets is the same as having a 4x12 cab?

Yep.

Example: I build two 2x12 sealed cabinets with the same internal dimensions and space with the same speakers wired in parallel. Then I wire them in series. The I stack them directly on top of each other with the same head. They're going to sound the same as a 4x12 sealed cabinet.

Now if you're comparing open and closed backs ... that's a different animal. There's a reason for the sound difference in that situation vs. the one you proposed. But then an open back 4x12 would sound different than a sealed 4x12 cabinet. But that's a different claim.

 

[SirJackdeFuzz]

Re: 2x12 vs 4x12

Help me decide. Discuss

Voted for the 2x12's !


* Smaller
* Lighter
* Cheaper (to buy & replace sp, if need be)
* More Car-friendly
* "looks nicer" as a combo (but that is just me)
* less space in the house - i think ?

. . . If you want to 2x12 & a 4x12, why not get TWO 2x12's !??


Open-up your optiones then.

Think about it . . .

One AVATAR 2x12 cab, with V30's, and one AVATAR 2x12 with, ermmm, Jensens.
One cab can be closed back (V30's) & the second can be open (w. Jensens)

Depending on the tone/location and style you are going for you can take either one of the two, OR take both !!!
Kinda, "the best of both worlds", with the Speaker choices, and open/closed-back cabs !

Make me wanna rush out & get a head-amp and TWO AVATAR 2x12 cab's right now !


. . . and i am a combo-man !


My 2 cents

 

[Animal]

Re: 2x12 vs 4x12

Yep.

Example: I build two 2x12 sealed cabinets with the same internal dimensions and space with the same speakers wired in parallel. Then I wire them in series. The I stack them directly on top of each other with the same head. They're going to sound the same as a 4x12 sealed cabinet.

Interesting. I've always thought about that kind of approach but I keep hearing that the only way to get the 4x12 sound is to actually use a real 4x12.

 

[doveman]

Re: 2x12 vs 4x12

Interesting. I've always thought about that kind of approach but I keep hearing that the only way to get the 4x12 sound is to actually use a real 4x12.

That's the point ... you keep hearing it ... but you're hearing people talking. It's a myth. I've built and used these kind of cabinets myself. Assuming the same speakers ... two 2x12s will sound great, be lighter and function as well as a 4x12. Now you may have variances to consider when running the single cabinets (16ohms, 8ohms, 4ohms) and sometimes those options are can actually be good news. You have to think through what the best 1 cabinet option is for your amp. For example: I could do two 4 ohm cabinets in series for 8 ohms for my Boogie. Or I could use two 16ohm. My Boogie can run a single 16ohm speaker cabinet and will be tighter and a little lower volume ... maybe that's what I want at home? See what I mean ... maybe advantages?

But in the end two 2x12s with the same speakers and wired to have the same ohm load will be no different ... unless you talk yourself into it. When you listen (to the speakers) it will all be good. Now I don't know the specific dimensions of the Avatar speaker cabinets ... but I would bet on that combo too having just looked at them.

As I mentioned before ... I used to have two 4x12 Altec Lansing loaded (double stack). It was cool looking and heavy as s***. Now I have a 1x12 EVM loaded single cabinet and put a mic on it in a live situation. Ask yourself why you generally see 1 mic on a double stack? It's because the speakers are all making the same sound. If they have a 2nd mic it's either a cab with different two kinds of speakers or a backup.

I'm open to debate if someone can offer something concrete ... but so far I have not seen (or heard) it.

 

[thucydides]

Re: 2x12 vs 4x12

1x12 ... then put a mic on it if you need to ...

I used to rack up two 4x12 Altec stacks ... they weighted a ton and looked cool. But the sound man could not turn me down low enough to make it right in the mix ... he could always turn the mic up on the 1x12.

One man's opinion ...

There is much to be said for that if you are running through a great PA! You won't have the thump in yor stage sound, but, IME, it translates well to the audience.

That said, I agree that 4x12 sounds the best. But the law of diminishing returns kicks in on smaller stages where you can't turn up the volume.

 

[doveman]

Re: 2x12 vs 4x12

Yes 1x12 will sound different on the stage, but (speaking to the original conversation) two 2x12s will sound as good as one 4x12. If you've got a good PA and monitor my 1x12 EVM will keep up with them all. So for the guy asking the original post question ... a couple of 2x12 will be OK. There may even be some advantages. Just might not look the same.

By the way: About two months ago I jammed with a band where two other guitarist were playing with 4x12 Marshalls ... I had my Boogie 1x12 EVM ... no PA or monitor on the guitars. My rig sounded just as full in this medium sized club ... on stage and out front. I helped them load up there cabs after I put mine away. Again ... I used to have the same set up ... except I had two 4x12s cabs loaded with Altec Lansing speakers ... talk about heavy. I played a Marshall, as well. It was what my heroes played. Now I just go by the sound and sometimes less is more.

They're all good amps and speakers ... but I think we may put more myth in it than we need to ... I know I did. :smack: Did look cool though.

 

[some_dude]

Re: 2x12 vs 4x12

As someone who regularily uses or has used 1x12, 2x12, 4x12, and 6x12 (2x12 on a 4x12) setups I have to disagree with Doveman.

If you were to ask me if two 2x12s sound good I'd answer yes.

If you were to ask me if two 2x12s sound like a 4x12 I'd answer no.

Whether that means that the 4x12 is actually better is subjective....we all have our own opinions on what makes for good tone, but there's something about sticking 4 speakers in one box that sounds different than sticking 4 speakers in two boxes.

 

[Kommerzbassist]

Re: 2x12 vs 4x12

That's the point ... you keep hearing it ... but you're hearing people talking. It's a myth. I've built and used these kind of cabinets myself. Assuming the same speakers ... two 2x12s will sound great, be lighter and function as well as a 4x12. Now you may have variances to consider when running the single cabinets (16ohms, 8ohms, 4ohms) and sometimes those options are can actually be good news. You have to think through what the best 1 cabinet option is for your amp. For example: I could do two 4 ohm cabinets in series for 8 ohms for my Boogie. Or I could use two 16ohm. My Boogie can run a single 16ohm speaker cabinet and will be tighter and a little lower volume ... maybe that's what I want at home? See what I mean ... maybe advantages?

But in the end two 2x12s with the same speakers and wired to have the same ohm load will be no different ... unless you talk yourself into it. When you listen (to the speakers) it will all be good. Now I don't know the specific dimensions of the Avatar speaker cabinets ... but I would bet on that combo too having just looked at them.

As I mentioned before ... I used to have two 4x12 Altec Lansing loaded (double stack). It was cool looking and heavy as s***. Now I have a 1x12 EVM loaded single cabinet and put a mic on it in a live situation. Ask yourself why you generally see 1 mic on a double stack? It's because the speakers are all making the same sound. If they have a 2nd mic it's either a cab with different two kinds of speakers or a backup.

I'm open to debate if someone can offer something concrete ... but so far I have not seen (or heard) it.

Uhm sorry, but 2 2x12s are NOT like a 4x12... 2 2x12 do not share the same cab (=air) and do not have the same frequency response of the cab itself.

Still, 2 2x12 may be a better choice here... Why? Because you have to lug them around. Unless you always have someone to help you, you'll just hurt your back with the 4x12. BUT if you have someone to help you, forget what I just said and get the 4x12

 

[thucydides]

Re: 2x12 vs 4x12

Yes 1x12 will sound different on the stage, but (speaking to the original conversation) two 2x12s will sound as good as one 4x12. If you've got a good PA and monitor my 1x12 EVM will keep up with them all. So for the guy asking the original post question ... a couple of 2x12 will be OK. There may even be some advantages. Just might not look the same.

Was I drifting?:smack:

 

[doveman]

Re: 2x12 vs 4x12

Oh well ...the myth continues ... but everyone's entitled to an opinion ... :smack:

 

[Kommerzbassist]

Re: 2x12 vs 4x12

Oh well ...the myth continues ... but everyone's entitled to an opinion ... :smack:

No this is not a myth, it's math & physics.

 

[some_dude]

Re: 2x12 vs 4x12

Ask yourself why you generally see 1 mic on a double stack? It's because the speakers are all making the same sound. If they have a 2nd mic it's either a cab with different two kinds of speakers or a backup.

I agree with comment about micing a full stack, but when micing a single speaker on a 4x12 it'll still sound different than the same speaker in a 1x12.

 

[doveman]

Re: 2x12 vs 4x12

Guys ... I apologize ... you just stepped on one of my hot buttons ... my fault not yours. We are entitiled to our own opinions.

Mine is that the piston action of 4 speakers moving twice as much air in a sealed cabinet twice the size will sound the same as two cabinets with the same speakers and roughly half the volume. My ears told me the same thing when I built such cabinets. I realize that physics and math exist but just need more than that to be convinced. What rules? Etc. But I won't drag this out ...

My only advice to original question posted is two 2x12s will not disappoint you ... in my experience.

So hopefully, we can just agree to disagee ... agreeably. I'll bow out of this one. Again, I aplogize ... my tone was out of line. Again ... just a hot button that bothers me ... only have a couple. :eek13:

 

[Christobevii3]

Re: 2x12 vs 4x12

Anything less than 20x12" is not going to due!

 

[Kommerzbassist]

Re: 2x12 vs 4x12

Mine is that the piston action of 4 speakers moving twice as much air in a sealed cabinet twice the size will sound the same as two cabinets with the same speakers and roughly half the volume. My ears told me the same thing when I built such cabinets. I realize that physics and math exist but just need more than that to be convinced. What rules? Etc. But I won't drag this out ...

You seem very convinced.
Take 3 whistles. 2 of the same size and one bigger double the size.
Now blow through the big one.
Then you blow through the two smaller ones, but at the same time.
Of course both times you'll have the same sound... or not.

(even though in a vented cab you'd hear more of the difference, there still will be one in sealed ones aswell)

But yeah, I think everyone should listen and judge for himself, right? Whatever floats your boat.

 

[34029324079]

Re: 2x12 vs 4x12

a bit of a compromise between the 4x12 metal mania and the 2x12 but I think it just might work:

.
.
.
.
.
.
.
.
.
..
.
.
.
..
.
.
.
..
.
.
.
.

 

[Kommerzbassist]

Re: 2x12 vs 4x12

a bit of a compromise between the 4x12 metal mania and the 2x12 but I think it just might work:

.
.
.
.
.
.
.
.
.
..
.
.
.
..
.
.
.
..
.
.
.
.

YEAH dude that's it... it's like having both a 4x12 AND a 2x12!!! :dance:

 

[34029324079]

Re: 2x12 vs 4x12

^^Lolerz!! :beerchug:

 

[Kamanda~SD]

Re: 2x12 vs 4x12

Since I don't want to write a novel I'm just going to post what I voted for:

4x12